Discussion:
Questions about Deism
(too old to reply)
Dapper Dandy
2007-03-08 00:30:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi there,

I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...

1} Could you please tell me how an individual converts to Deism or for
lack of a better phrase, how does one become a Deist?. In other words,
does becoming a Deist involve an official initiation ceremony which is
akin to a Christian baptism or something along those lines?.

2} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically opt for
burial or cremation when they pass away?.

3} Do Deists have an official symbol of faith such as the Crucifix
(Christianity), the Star of David (Judaism), Aum (Hinduism), Khanda
(Sikhism), or the Pentagram (Wicca)?.

4} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Homosexuality?.

5} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Abortion and
Contraception?.

6} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Masturbation?.

7} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically pray to a
Deity or series of Deities in the same way that adherents to Judaism,
Christianity, and Islam pray to their God?.

8} Could you please tell me if Deism has its holy days much like
Christianity has
Christmas and Easter?.

If you could please assist me with my questions in the above text, I
would be most grateful indeed.

Thank you.

Dapper Dandy
Chris H. Fleming
2007-03-08 01:16:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dapper Dandy
Hi there,
I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...
1} Could you please tell me how an individual converts to Deism or for
lack of a better phrase, how does one become a Deist?. In other words,
does becoming a Deist involve an official initiation ceremony which is
akin to a Christian baptism or something along those lines?.
One is a deist if they believe in a god but not in the supernatural. The
god follows or is part of natural laws and is capable of no supernatural
miracles. It is not an organization. There is no initiation.
Post by Dapper Dandy
2} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically opt for
burial or cremation when they pass away?.
7} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically pray to a
Deity or series of Deities in the same way that adherents to Judaism,
Christianity, and Islam pray to their God?.
For most deists, there would be no point in such things.
Post by Dapper Dandy
3} Do Deists have an official symbol of faith such as the Crucifix
(Christianity), the Star of David (Judaism), Aum (Hinduism), Khanda
(Sikhism), or the Pentagram (Wicca)?.
8} Could you please tell me if Deism has its holy days much like
Christianity has
Christmas and Easter?.
Diesm isn't a single religion, but a general theological stance.
Post by Dapper Dandy
4} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Homosexuality?.
5} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Abortion and
Contraception?.
6} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Masturbation?.
There is no uniform stance for these things. But deists are unlikely to
be dogmatic about such things. There are no holy deist books filled with
commandments from the deity.
Post by Dapper Dandy
If you could please assist me with my questions in the above text, I
would be most grateful indeed.
Thank you.
Dapper Dandy
JTEM
2007-03-08 12:27:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris H. Fleming
One is a deist if they believe in a god but not
in the supernatural.
Not really. Think of the "clockwork universe." The idea
was that God built the clockworks, set it all into motion
and then set back. There is a supernatural in Deism ("God"),
but God does not intervene.
Post by Chris H. Fleming
The god follows or is part of natural laws and is capable
of no supernatural miracles.
Well, not quite. DOES NOT PERFORM miracles, takes no role
in how the world -- the entire universe -- plays out.

A deist effectively believes that God created the universe
and then stepped out for a bucket of chicken, never to
return until it's all over & done with.
tg
2007-03-08 13:24:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM
Post by Chris H. Fleming
One is a deist if they believe in a god but not
in the supernatural.
Not really. Think of the "clockwork universe." The idea
was that God built the clockworks, set it all into motion
and then set back. There is a supernatural in Deism ("God"),
but God does not intervene.
Not clear.

1) How is supernatural a meaningful description before there is any
'natural'?

2) How do you know that God exists after the creation of the
clockwork?

Maybe there is some better term like hyper-natural or meta-natural or
something, where the universe is a transformation of God. Anyway,
"supernatural" has lots of baggage, no?

-tg
Post by JTEM
Post by Chris H. Fleming
The god follows or is part of natural laws and is capable
of no supernatural miracles.
Well, not quite. DOES NOT PERFORM miracles, takes no role
in how the world -- the entire universe -- plays out.
A deist effectively believes that God created the universe
and then stepped out for a bucket of chicken, never to
return until it's all over & done with.
Craig Franck
2007-03-08 23:28:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by tg
Post by JTEM
Post by Chris H. Fleming
One is a deist if they believe in a god but not
in the supernatural.
Not really. Think of the "clockwork universe." The idea
was that God built the clockworks, set it all into motion
and then set back. There is a supernatural in Deism ("God"),
but God does not intervene.
Not clear.
1) How is supernatural a meaningful description before there is any
'natural'?
Actually, I believe in the history of mankind, the supernatural
was the default and a naturalistic framework of explanation
was an inference. This is why Ionian philosophy is seen as
the birth of proto-science. So it should be a meaningful, if
possibly confused, concept.

A deist may claim the supernatural is simply a higher level of
naturalism, as you comment below. Or it may simply be that
naturalism is well-behaved supernatural.
Post by tg
2) How do you know that God exists after the creation of the
clockwork?
One problem with deism is, by their own logic, it is impossible
to tell whether a Supreme Being exists, so it's an open question
as to whether it could ever be a justified belief.

But if it turns out that the laws of physics are such that we may
be able to create universes on our own, then the odds of this
one being created in a similar way go way up on the principle
that we are not special.
--
Craig Franck
***@verizon.net
Cortland, NY
JTEM
2007-03-09 06:34:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by tg
Post by JTEM
Not really. Think of the "clockwork universe." The idea
was that God built the clockworks, set it all into motion
and then set back. There is a supernatural in Deism ("God"),
but God does not intervene.
Not clear.
1) How is supernatural a meaningful description before there
is any 'natural'?
your question isn't very clear.

To a deist, God does exist. There is no reduction of God or
his supernatural powers. The difference is that God built the
universe and then went out for a bucket of chicken. He no
more needs to watch over his creation than a clockmaker must
move into your home and watch over the clock which he built.

To the deist, the universe is a large machine. And, like any
machine, you can observe it, study each part, understanding
it's workings and perhaps even duplicate it (or much of it).

Gone are miracles or any other supernatural intervention.
The universe always follows the rules -- does exactly what
it was designed & built to do -- and God never stops it or
over rules it because someone (no matter how deserving) asked
really nicely.

In a nut shell: God is absent from human affairs. While
some forms of theism believe that God takes an active role
in your life, deists believe that God does not.
Post by tg
2) How do you know that God exists after the creation of
the clockwork?
Why ask me?

I suppose it's the same as any other theistic view: We know
because the universe is there.
Chris Johnson
2007-03-08 01:19:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dapper Dandy
Hi there,
I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

<snip>
Post by Dapper Dandy
4} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Homosexuality?.
5} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Abortion and
Contraception?.
6} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Masturbation?.
I'm guessing you're a Christian?

<snip>
Steve O
2007-03-08 01:43:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Johnson
Post by Dapper Dandy
Hi there,
I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
<snip>
Post by Dapper Dandy
4} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Homosexuality?.
5} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Abortion and
Contraception?.
6} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Masturbation?.
I'm guessing you're a Christian?
<snip>
I'm guessing he's winding people up
--
Steve O
a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter)
B.A.A.W.A.
"Faith doesn't move mountains - it levels buildings" - anon.
"The Universe isn't about us." - Carl Sagan
Al Klein
2007-03-08 02:49:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve O
Post by Chris Johnson
Post by Dapper Dandy
Hi there,
I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
<snip>
Post by Dapper Dandy
4} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Homosexuality?.
5} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Abortion and
Contraception?.
6} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Masturbation?.
I'm guessing you're a Christian?
<snip>
I'm guessing he's winding people up
I'm guessing you're being kind.
Ronald 'More-More' Moshki
2007-03-08 02:07:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dapper Dandy
Hi there,
I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...
1} Could you please tell me how an individual converts to Deism or for
lack of a better phrase, how does one become a Deist?. In other words,
does becoming a Deist involve an official initiation ceremony which is
akin to a Christian baptism or something along those lines?.
2} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically opt for
burial or cremation when they pass away?.
3} Do Deists have an official symbol of faith such as the Crucifix
(Christianity), the Star of David (Judaism), Aum (Hinduism), Khanda
(Sikhism), or the Pentagram (Wicca)?.
4} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Homosexuality?.
5} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Abortion and
Contraception?.
6} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Masturbation?.
7} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically pray to a
Deity or series of Deities in the same way that adherents to Judaism,
Christianity, and Islam pray to their God?.
8} Could you please tell me if Deism has its holy days much like
Christianity has
Christmas and Easter?.
If you could please assist me with my questions in the above text, I
would be most grateful indeed.
Thank you.
Dapper Dandy
I should like to say to Dandy--
--'Thy must needs announce to thy
neighborhood'--"I'm now a Deist and if youze
don't like it, youse can lump it."
Immortalist
2007-03-08 03:44:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dapper Dandy
Hi there,
I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...
I am not a deist personally so can only offer some wikipoop;

...Developed in the 17th and 18th centuries, Deism envisions a kind of
clock-maker God who set the universe in motion but then let it run on
its own, calling into question the Jewish and Christian notion of
God's intervention in history. ...[Deism was] ...The Enlightenment
endeavor to purify Christianity, to rid religion of all that was not
rational, natural, and moral, and develop a natural religion. An
international movement, Deism reflected local religious,
philosophical, and social expressions of the Enlightenment..."

http://www.sullivan-county.com/deism.htm

The implications of Isaac Newton's physical theories of mechanics,
which treated the universe as if it were a machine (hence the term
"mechanics") built by a creating god yet running on its own principles
independent of the interference of the creating god (though Newton
never denied that God couldn't interefere, just that he didn't),
encompassed much more than physical change and movement. Soon other
areas of experience came to be regarded as mechanistic and independent
of divine interference: social structures, economics, politics, and so
forth. Each of these areas could be understood and manipulated solely
through rational methods, since they operated through consistent and
orderly laws and principles

The philosophes of mid-eighteenth century France developed this
mechanistic view of the universe into a radically revised version of
Christianity they called deism . Drawing on Newton's description of
the universe as a great clock built by the Creator and then set in
motion, the deists among the philosophes argued that everything-
physical motion, human physiology, politics, society, economics-had
its own set of rational principles established by God which could be
understood by human beings solely by means of their reason. This meant
that the workings of the human and physical worlds could be understood
without having to bring religion, mysticism, or divinity into the
explanation. The Deists were not atheists; they simply asserted that
everything that concerned the physical and human universes could be
comprehended independently of religious concerns or explanations.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/GLOSSARY/DEISM.HTM

The Origins of Deism

Although the search for the orgins of rational religion may lead one
to an "infinite regress," one can argue that Deism had its origins in
a renewed interest in the world during the seventeenth and eighteenth
centuries. This interest in the world was reflected in the art and
science of the Renaissance, and evidenced itself in the work of
Galileo (the telescope), Sir Isaac Newton and his book Principia
(which assumed that the world is an ordered place where everything
occurs by natural law)...

...Parallel to this interest in the natural order, was a growing
confidence in the powers of reason. In medieval Christianity, reason
had been the handmaid of theology. Its only task was to help order and
to foster our understanding of God's revelation. This began to change
with the Scholastics. While reason never challenged or contradicted
revelation, it came to be more and more of an independent discipline
with its own powers for discovering truths (even though it was still
thought that all higher truths came from revelation)...

...Newton helped formulate a science of mechanics. He painted the
universe is a vast and harmonious machine. This principle was in turn
applied to religious and social life. Many came to believe that it was
possible to find God through a natural religion, and to discover the
moral laws of existence through reason, allowing the creation of a
well ordered society was possible where people can live in harmony and
prosperity...

...The effort to find this natural religion came to be known as Deism.
The focus naturally was on ethics. Deism first appeared in England in
the seventeenth century in response to the theological controversies
that divided Christians during the sixteenth century. Deism must be
distinguished from theism and atheism. Atheists were scornful of
deists saying that they were not weak enough to be Christians, and not
strong enough to be atheists. The Deists believed themselves to be
Christians. Their God was not the personal God of the theists: a God
who operated through history and concerned himself continually with
the affairs of human beings. Rather their God was the Great Artificer
of the Universe who with a thrust of his Almighty hand, had set
rolling the myriad spheres, and left creation to its own devices.
Rather than being intimately involved with the creation, this God had
left humanity on its own to be guided in its affairs by reason, the
"candle of the Lord."

Deism was denoted by five major doctrines.

1) The existence of God

2) The obligation to worship God

3) the ethical requirements of such worship

4) the need for repentance

5) The need for reward and punishment both in
this life and in the one to follow

http://www.wfu.edu/~matthetl/south/four.html

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04679b.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/deism.htm
http://www.deism.com/deism_defined.htm
http://www.deism.com/deism_vs.htm
Post by Dapper Dandy
1} Could you please tell me how an individual converts to Deism or for
lack of a better phrase, how does one become a Deist?. In other words,
does becoming a Deist involve an official initiation ceremony which is
akin to a Christian baptism or something along those lines?.
I suppose its like the difference between "holy rollers" and "stiff
collared Baptists" where one rolls and slobers and mumbles
incomprehensibly while the other treats religion like anything else,
with just a little bit of emotion but mostly treat religion like a
contractual agreement.
Post by Dapper Dandy
2} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically opt for
burial or cremation when they pass away?.
3} Do Deists have an official symbol of faith such as the Crucifix
(Christianity), the Star of David (Judaism), Aum (Hinduism), Khanda
(Sikhism), or the Pentagram (Wicca)?.
4} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Homosexuality?.
5} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Abortion and
Contraception?.
6} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Masturbation?.
7} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically pray to a
Deity or series of Deities in the same way that adherents to Judaism,
Christianity, and Islam pray to their God?.
8} Could you please tell me if Deism has its holy days much like
Christianity has
Christmas and Easter?.
If you could please assist me with my questions in the above text, I
would be most grateful indeed.
Thank you.
Dapper Dandy
Michael Gray
2007-03-08 05:38:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dapper Dandy
Hi there,
I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...
1} Could you please tell me how an individual converts to Deism or for
lack of a better phrase, how does one become a Deist?. In other words,
does becoming a Deist involve an official initiation ceremony which is
akin to a Christian baptism or something along those lines?.
2} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically opt for
burial or cremation when they pass away?.
3} Do Deists have an official symbol of faith such as the Crucifix
(Christianity), the Star of David (Judaism), Aum (Hinduism), Khanda
(Sikhism), or the Pentagram (Wicca)?.
4} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Homosexuality?.
5} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Abortion and
Contraception?.
6} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Masturbation?.
7} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically pray to a
Deity or series of Deities in the same way that adherents to Judaism,
Christianity, and Islam pray to their God?.
8} Could you please tell me if Deism has its holy days much like
Christianity has
Christmas and Easter?.
If you could please assist me with my questions in the above text, I
would be most grateful indeed.
Thank you.
Dapper Dandy
Haven't you got anything better to do than play this pathetically
puerile game?
Like say, pulling the wings off flies, or getting a life, perhaps?

But expect that you are a Christian, and are therefore pathologically
incapable of any semblance of "grown up" behaviour.

--
sceptborg
2007-03-08 06:49:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dapper Dandy
Hi there,
I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...
<snip>
6} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Masturbation?.
If you ever happen to have an orgasm you must call out ::::

"Oh Dei, Oh Dei"
old man joe
2007-03-08 10:12:55 UTC
Permalink
On 7 Mar 2007 16:30:38 -0800, "Dapper Dandy" <***@aol.com>
wrote:

Hi there,

I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...

1} Could you please tell me how an individual converts to Deism or for
lack of a better phrase, how does one become a Deist?. In other words,
does becoming a Deist involve an official initiation ceremony which is
akin to a Christian baptism or something along those lines?.

2} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically opt for
burial or cremation when they pass away?.

3} Do Deists have an official symbol of faith such as the Crucifix
(Christianity), the Star of David (Judaism), Aum (Hinduism), Khanda
(Sikhism), or the Pentagram (Wicca)?.

4} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Homosexuality?.

5} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Abortion and
Contraception?.

6} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Masturbation?.

7} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically pray to a
Deity or series of Deities in the same way that adherents to Judaism,
Christianity, and Islam pray to their God?.

8} Could you please tell me if Deism has its holy days much like
Christianity has
Christmas and Easter?.

If you could please assist me with my questions in the above text, I
would be most grateful indeed.

Thank you.

Dapper Dandy


you'll find unbiased answers here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

*****************************************************************


" and as many as had been appointed to eternal life, believed."
Acts 13:48
Dapper Dandy
2007-03-08 14:28:12 UTC
Permalink
Firstly, I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of those
on this thread who took the time to respond to my various questions
concerning Deism. Secondly, I am NOT a Christian and I am NOT here to
"wind anyone yup". Thirdly, it amazes me how many people on Usenet
Newsgroups are paranoid and automatically assume there is some sort of
conspiracy and/or hidden agenda. My queries about Deism are strictly
out of personal interest.

If anyone here would like to answer some further questions for me with
regard to Deism,
I would be most grateful indeed...

1} Could you please tell me what position, if any, Deism takes
concerning the origin, authenticity, and accuracy of holy texts such
as the Bible (Christianity), Koran (Islam), Bhagavad Gita (Hinduism),
ect.? Specifically, could you please tell me if Deists believe that
these holy texts were written by individuals who were inspired to do
so by God or were these individuals simply mentally ill, delusional,
and/or liars?.

2} Could you please tell me how Deism typically views Freemasonry?.

3} Could you please tell me how Deism typically views capital
punishment?

4} Could you please tell me how Deism views contemporary human efforts
at
environmental protectionism?. As you may be aware, there are many
Evangelical Christian Fundamentalists who regard any sort of
environmental protectionism on the part of Christians as being
tantamount to "a green religion, goddess worship, globalism" which is
apparently "blasphemy" as it implies that God cannot take care of his
own creation.

5} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically regard
racism, sexism, homophobia, bigotry, anti-Semitism as unacceptable?.

6} Could you please tell me if any organized Deist groups have issued
any formal statements condemning the recent "Holocaust denial"
conference in Iran?. I believe that the Roman Catholic Church has
issued an a formal statement categorically condemning this particular
event.

7} Could you please tell me if Deism believes in the existence of an
evil Deity which would be on par with the Christian/Muslim/Jewish
concept of the Devil/Satan?.

8} Could you please tell me how Deism typically views Suicide?.

9} Could you please tell me what view Deism take concerning the
origins of the Universe itself?.

10} Could you please tell me if Deists engage in any interfaith
dialogue with other religions
in general such Christianity?.

11} Could you please tell me if Deists believe in the existence of an
immortal spirit/soul which resides in all human beings, which departs
the hum body upon death and goes to
spiritual realms?.

12} Could you please tell me if Deists believe that deceased human
being will experience
any sort of life, consciousness, self-awareness, ect.; at all beyond
the grave?.

13} Could you please tell me if Deists are found amongst all races,
ethnicities, cultures, nationalities, spoken languages, ect.?. Please
forgive my ignorance and generaliztions here, but from what I have
read about Deism, it would appear at first glance that it is mostly
White American Males who are of Northern European ethnicity who tend
to be Deists, such as the Founding Fathers of the USA and other
historical figures which are mentioned on certain Deists websites
which I have seen.
meg
2007-03-08 17:24:58 UTC
Permalink
You can't define a deist so much by their exact system of beliefs
because they are not an established religion; it is a way of
thinking. It's an unfair question to ask what a Deists veiws on
homosexuality, racism, or anything like that. It's a simple belief
that God is a "divine watchmaker" of sorts who created the world but
does not get involved past initial creation. There is no Deist church
that restricts your beliefs in God past that singular idea. If you
were to create any semblance of a church for Deists then you would be
assuming that God actually will intercede in someway on your behalf on
your own personal problems which is not what Diests believe.
Generally, it does not make sense that there woudl be an evil being
that Deists believe in. The world is the way it is today because of
human greed and misuse of power. Deists traditionally are
exceptionally logical people (i.e. Ben Franklin) so there are logical
explanations for the evils of the world rather than pinning problems
on God or Satan.
It seems as though Deism is very existential in a way, in that you
are responsible for your thoughts and decisions in life since God is
relatively uninvolved in human affairs. Life for a Deist is what you
make of it. You cannot rely on other people or other supernatural
beings to show you how you should behave. You must discover it for
yourself.

m.

p.s. I especially like R. Moshki's "how to proclaim you are a deist."
Robibnikoff
2007-03-08 19:54:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dapper Dandy
Firstly, I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of those
on this thread who took the time to respond to my various questions
concerning Deism. Secondly, I am NOT a Christian and I am NOT here to
"wind anyone yup". Thirdly, it amazes me how many people on Usenet
Newsgroups are paranoid and automatically assume there is some sort of
conspiracy and/or hidden agenda. My queries about Deism are strictly
out of personal interest.
That's nice, but why post this to alt.atheism?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
Ronald 'More-More' Moshki
2007-03-08 20:35:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robibnikoff
Post by Dapper Dandy
Firstly, I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of those
on this thread who took the time to respond to my various questions
concerning Deism. Secondly, I am NOT a Christian and I am NOT here to
"wind anyone yup". Thirdly, it amazes me how many people on Usenet
Newsgroups are paranoid and automatically assume there is some sort of
conspiracy and/or hidden agenda. My queries about Deism are strictly
out of personal interest.
That's nice, but why post this to alt.atheism?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
Because Teddy Roosevelt described the immortal Thomas Paine
as "a filthy little atheist."
l***@rdfmedia.com
2007-03-09 11:44:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robibnikoff
Post by Dapper Dandy
Firstly, I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of those
on this thread who took the time to respond to my various questions
concerning Deism. Secondly, I am NOT a Christian and I am NOT here to
"wind anyone yup". Thirdly, it amazes me how many people on Usenet
Newsgroups are paranoid and automatically assume there is some sort of
conspiracy and/or hidden agenda. My queries about Deism are strictly
out of personal interest.
That's nice, but why post this to alt.atheism?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
He probably didn't he probably posted to alt.religion.deism, that is
somehow linked to alt.atheisim, as it is also linked to alt.philosophy
Padraic Brown
2007-03-10 00:59:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dapper Dandy
Firstly, I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of those
on this thread who took the time to respond to my various questions
concerning Deism. Secondly, I am NOT a Christian and I am NOT here to
"wind anyone yup". Thirdly, it amazes me how many people on Usenet
Newsgroups are paranoid and automatically assume there is some sort of
conspiracy and/or hidden agenda. My queries about Deism are strictly
out of personal interest.
If anyone here would like to answer some further questions for me with
regard to Deism,
I would be most grateful indeed...
1} Could you please tell me what position, if any, Deism takes
concerning the origin, authenticity, and accuracy of holy texts such
as the Bible (Christianity), Koran (Islam), Bhagavad Gita (Hinduism),
ect.? Specifically, could you please tell me if Deists believe that
these holy texts were written by individuals who were inspired to do
so by God or were these individuals simply mentally ill, delusional,
and/or liars?.
The answer to the first question is basically "none". Thomas
Jefferson, in fashioning his own gospel (now known widely as the
Jefferson Bible) said of the project: "I have performed this operation
for my own use, by cutting verse by verse out of the printed book, and
arranging the matter which is evidently his, and which is as easily
distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill."

The diamonds, obviously, are the true and sublime dicta of Jesus --
the dunghill is obviously the rest of the Bible.

Deism in general holds that "scriptures" are not the revelations of
God, and thus should not be of any particular importance. Therefore,
the answer to the second question is "no". I do not think Deists, in
general, believe that the writers of scriptures were necessarily ill
or liars; but they do believe that what was written was not divinely
inspired.

Deism holds that the true revelation from and of the Creator is the
creation itself.
Post by Dapper Dandy
2} Could you please tell me how Deism typically views Freemasonry?.
Given that many historical figures who were Deists were also Masons, I
can only conclude that it was viewed fairly positively. Keep in mind
that Masonry is only really looked down upon by Roman Catholic
officialdom.
Post by Dapper Dandy
3} Could you please tell me how Deism typically views capital
punishment?
As has been said before, there is no Deist "church", so no doctrinal
statements can really be offered. I would think that Deists' opinions
would probably run along the lines of the opinions of society as a
whole.

I'm not an "orthodox" Deist, but don't hold with the death penalty. I
don't think it serves any useful purpose (and even when meted with
reckless abandon, served no really useful purpose other than prison
clearance) -- other Deists might differ.
Post by Dapper Dandy
4} Could you please tell me how Deism views contemporary human efforts
at
environmental protectionism?. As you may be aware, there are many
Evangelical Christian Fundamentalists who regard any sort of
environmental protectionism on the part of Christians as being
tantamount to "a green religion, goddess worship, globalism" which is
apparently "blasphemy" as it implies that God cannot take care of his
own creation.
Which is really quite strange indeed, since God commanded humans, via
Adam, to be stewards of the world and its resources.

I think it is sound and reasonable to sensibly marshal one's resources
and to be protective of the environment we have to live in. I think
that, since Deism is a reason based system of spiritual belief, most
Deists would concur with the above efforts.
Post by Dapper Dandy
5} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically regard
racism, sexism, homophobia, bigotry, anti-Semitism as unacceptable?.
I would think so. It's not rational to respond with such hate towards
others.
Post by Dapper Dandy
6} Could you please tell me if any organized Deist groups have issued
any formal statements condemning the recent "Holocaust denial"
conference in Iran?. I believe that the Roman Catholic Church has
issued an a formal statement categorically condemning this particular
event.
Just because CHristians beleive in divine inspiration and scriptural
revelation doesn't make them stupid or hateful. The Church is quite
right in condemning holocause denial.
Post by Dapper Dandy
7} Could you please tell me if Deism believes in the existence of an
evil Deity which would be on par with the Christian/Muslim/Jewish
concept of the Devil/Satan?.
Deism doesn't seem to go in for supernaturalism of this sort. It
posits exactly one Creator; individual Deists may have believed in
more or less of the common Christian doctrine regarding Satan, devils
and angels.
Post by Dapper Dandy
8} Could you please tell me how Deism typically views Suicide?.
A sad choice?
Post by Dapper Dandy
9} Could you please tell me what view Deism take concerning the
origins of the Universe itself?.
Now we get to the meat of Deism. From what I've been able to gather,
Deism posits that the universe and all its wonderful order and detail
can most sensibly have come about due to the actions of a Creator.
Creation didn't happen in the way the Bible says it does (that smacks
of non-rational mythology); but through methods and means known to the
Creator, the universe came into being.
Post by Dapper Dandy
10} Could you please tell me if Deists engage in any interfaith
dialogue with other religions in general such Christianity?.
Probably?
Post by Dapper Dandy
11} Could you please tell me if Deists believe in the existence of an
immortal spirit/soul which resides in all human beings, which departs
the hum body upon death and goes to
spiritual realms?.
I don't know. But once again, I don't think this is something that
"Deism" really stresses. You really might want to read
<http://www.godvsthebible.com/faq.htm>
Post by Dapper Dandy
12} Could you please tell me if Deists believe that deceased human
being will experience
any sort of life, consciousness, self-awareness, ect.; at all beyond
the grave?.
13} Could you please tell me if Deists are found amongst all races,
ethnicities, cultures, nationalities, spoken languages, ect.?. Please
forgive my ignorance and generaliztions here, but from what I have
read about Deism, it would appear at first glance that it is mostly
White American Males who are of Northern European ethnicity who tend
to be Deists, such as the Founding Fathers of the USA and other
historical figures which are mentioned on certain Deists websites
which I have seen.
There are probably Deists, in the modern world, among all ethnicities.
But I think you're right that in the heyday of the 18th century, it
was mostly English and Americans who were Deists.

Padraic
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Bill Snyder
2007-03-08 18:43:38 UTC
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Post by Dapper Dandy
Hi there,
I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...
1} Could you please tell me how an individual converts to Deism or for
lack of a better phrase, how does one become a Deist?. In other words,
does becoming a Deist involve an official initiation ceremony which is
akin to a Christian baptism or something along those lines?.
2} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically opt for
burial or cremation when they pass away?.
3} Do Deists have an official symbol of faith such as the Crucifix
(Christianity), the Star of David (Judaism), Aum (Hinduism), Khanda
(Sikhism), or the Pentagram (Wicca)?.
4} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Homosexuality?.
5} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Abortion and
Contraception?.
6} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Masturbation?.
7} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically pray to a
Deity or series of Deities in the same way that adherents to Judaism,
Christianity, and Islam pray to their God?.
8} Could you please tell me if Deism has its holy days much like
Christianity has
Christmas and Easter?.
If you could please assist me with my questions in the above text, I
would be most grateful indeed.
Most of your questions here and in the later reply to old man joe are in a
very real sense meaningless. I.,e., it makes no sense to ask what a
"typical" deist believes on various things (not even on the nature of the
deity which they affirm exists). There is no such thing as a "typical"
deist or a "typical" set of beliefs which a deist would espouse, aside from
affirming that some sort of deity exists which lit the fuse which started it
all. That deity, according to many deists, is in NO way involved in the
cosmos in any way except as its initiator.

In a sense, deism is just a kind of "shame-faced atheism"; i.e., you have a
god but without the inconveniences of any sort of religion. I.e., there is
no set of beliefs or morals or practices to which you adhere because you are
a deist. You just think that there was some sort of something or other
which started it all.
--
BS
"I've always been crazy but,
it has kept me from going insane."
Robibnikoff
2007-03-08 19:53:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dapper Dandy
Hi there,
I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...
Why the heck did you post this to alt.atheism?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
Michael Gray
2007-03-08 21:12:04 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 8 Mar 2007 14:53:42 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
Post by Robibnikoff
Post by Dapper Dandy
Hi there,
I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...
Why the heck did you post this to alt.atheism?
Because it has the smartest, most intelligent, most knowledgable, and
mmost urbane participants on the entire interweb-thingy.

--
Robibnikoff
2007-03-08 21:27:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gray
On Thu, 8 Mar 2007 14:53:42 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
Post by Robibnikoff
Post by Dapper Dandy
Hi there,
I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...
Why the heck did you post this to alt.atheism?
Because it has the smartest, most intelligent, most knowledgable, and
mmost urbane participants on the entire interweb-thingy.
Well, true, but still! ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
Padraic Brown
2007-03-08 02:34:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dapper Dandy
Hi there,
I was wondering if any adherents to Deism would be kind enough to
answer the following question for me...
1} Could you please tell me how an individual converts to Deism or for
lack of a better phrase, how does one become a Deist?. In other words,
does becoming a Deist involve an official initiation ceremony which is
akin to a Christian baptism or something along those lines?.
One doesn't "convert" to Deism because it's not a religion like
Christianity, even though it shares a belief in the same Creator.

One "comes to the conclusion" that the evidence to be found in the
universe is sufficient to reasonably support the belief in the
universe's Creator.

I don't think there is any official Deist governing body or church per
se, so no official ceremony.
Post by Dapper Dandy
2} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically opt for
burial or cremation when they pass away?.
Honestly, I wasn't expecting that one! I think most historical Deists
conformed to the cultural norms of their place and time. Usually that
has been bodily interment. If you prefer creamation, then by all
means, arrange for that. Deism is not a religion that prohibits this
or that cultural practice. To me, it seems to be an approach to God
and the revelation of his creation.
Post by Dapper Dandy
3} Do Deists have an official symbol of faith such as the Crucifix
(Christianity), the Star of David (Judaism), Aum (Hinduism), Khanda
(Sikhism), or the Pentagram (Wicca)?.
There's none I'm aware of.
Post by Dapper Dandy
4} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Homosexuality?.
I don't think there is one. There are no "commandments" in the usual
sense and no church structure to impose rules. I think an individual
who is intellectually and spiritually ready to embrace Deism is also
capable of comming to his own conclusions about homosexuality.
Post by Dapper Dandy
5} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Abortion and
Contraception?.
See no. 4.
Post by Dapper Dandy
6} Could you please tell me what the Deist view is of Masturbation?.
See no. 5.
Post by Dapper Dandy
7} Could you please tell me if adherents to Deism typically pray to a
Deity or series of Deities in the same way that adherents to Judaism,
Christianity, and Islam pray to their God?.
I think in general, the answer is no, yet many famous Deists have
prayed for intervention, and have been prayerfully thankful to
Providence for all the gifts we have been given.
Post by Dapper Dandy
8} Could you please tell me if Deism has its holy days much like
Christianity has Christmas and Easter?.
No, not as such. Whatever holidays the civil authority has granted
would be taken by Deists as a matter of the culture they're living in.
Thanksgiving might be the closest Deism would come to a "religious
holiday", as it is through Divine Providence that all our blessings
come and one should be thankful for the gifts one has received.
Post by Dapper Dandy
If you could please assist me with my questions in the above text, I
would be most grateful indeed.
Thank you.
Dapper Dandy
See www.deism.com for an introduction into Deism. Also, you might
check out http://www.godvsthebible.com/ as well. I haven't read the
latter, apart from the faq.

Padraic
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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