Discussion:
ATHEISM MAKES SENSE
(too old to reply)
Michelle Malkin
2008-01-04 00:30:56 UTC
Permalink
An atheist is anyone who is not a theist. Theism is the belief in a
personal god who intervenes in the affairs of the universe. It's
really that simple.
Your definition of theism is off mate. Theism is a belief in the
existence of any god, that god need not be a "personal god", or even one
that "intervenes in the affairs of the universe". Its really that
simple.
er, do you know the difference between theism and deism?
Deism is a form of theism. As long an any god
or gods are involved, that's theism.
Kenneth Doyle
2008-01-04 00:46:26 UTC
Permalink
An atheist is anyone who is not a theist. Theism is the belief in a
personal god who intervenes in the affairs of the universe. It's
really that simple.
Your definition of theism is off mate. Theism is a belief in the
existence of any god, that god need not be a "personal god", or even
one that "intervenes in the affairs of the universe". Its really that
simple.
er, do you know the difference between theism and deism?
Deism is a form of theism. As long an any god or gods are involved,
that's theism.
OK, fine. We'll go with that definition. An atheist is still merely a
descriptive term for one who lacks theism. Surely you can't object to
that?
Michael Gray
2008-01-04 11:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kenneth Doyle
An atheist is anyone who is not a theist. Theism is the belief in a
personal god who intervenes in the affairs of the universe. It's
really that simple.
Your definition of theism is off mate. Theism is a belief in the
existence of any god, that god need not be a "personal god", or even
one that "intervenes in the affairs of the universe". Its really that
simple.
er, do you know the difference between theism and deism?
Deism is a form of theism. As long an any god or gods are involved,
that's theism.
OK, fine. We'll go with that definition. An atheist is still merely a
descriptive term for one who lacks theism. Surely you can't object to
that?
I think that is an effectly perfect definition for atheism.**
Congratters, old chap! :)



** With some minor trivial quibbles over the employment of the term
"one", whatever you may mean by that, as normal use of the term
implies a solo "human", whereas say, earthworms are trivially atheist,
and your definition excludes them, leading down the slippery slope of
intellectual potential. A slope that leads to very sharp rocks.
thomas p.
2008-01-05 18:55:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kenneth Doyle
An atheist is anyone who is not a theist. Theism is the belief in a
personal god who intervenes in the affairs of the universe. It's
really that simple.
Your definition of theism is off mate. Theism is a belief in the
existence of any god, that god need not be a "personal god", or even
one that "intervenes in the affairs of the universe". Its really that
simple.
er, do you know the difference between theism and deism?
Deism is a form of theism. As long an any god or gods are involved,
that's theism.
OK, fine. We'll go with that definition. An atheist is still merely a
descriptive term for one who lacks theism. Surely you can't object to
that?
It also makes your initial comments about atheism, theism and agnosticism
wrong.
Keith
2008-01-08 14:51:12 UTC
Permalink
Atheism

a?Žthe??-iz'm (???????, a?theos, "without God" (Eph_2:12)): Ordinarily this
word is interpreted to mean a denial of the existence of God, a disbelief in
God, the opposite of theism. But it seems better that we should consider it
under four heads, in order to obtain a clear idea of the different meanings
in which it has been used.

(1) The Classical

In this sense it does not mean a denial of the existence of a Divine Being,
but the denial of the existence or reality of the god of a particular
nation. Thus the Christians were repeatedly charged with atheism, because of
their disbelief in the gods of heathenism. It was not charged that they did
not believe in any god, but that they denied the existence and reality of
the gods worshipped, and before whom the nation hitherto had bowed. This was
considered so great a crime, so dangerous a thing to the nation, that it was
felt to be a just cause for most cruel and determined persecutions.
Socrates' teaching cast a shadow on the reality of the existence of the
gods, and this charge was brought against him by his contemporaries. Cicero
also uses the word in this sense in his charge against Diagoras of Athens.
Indeed, such use of it is common in all classical literature.

(2) Philosophic

It is not meant that the various philosophic systems to which this term is
applied actually deny the existence of a Divine Being or of a First Cause,
but that they are atheistic in their teaching, and tend to unsettle the
faith of mankind in the existence of God. There is indeed a belief in a
first cause, in force, in motion, in a certain aggregation of materials
producing life, but the Divine Being as taught by theism is absolutely
denied. This is true of the Idealism of Fichte, of the Ideal Pantheism of
Spinoza, the Natural Pantheism of Schelling, and similar forms of thought.
In applying the word atheism to the teaching here given, theism does not
intend to assail them as wholly without a belief in a Divine Being; but it
affirms that God is a person, a self-conscious Being, not merely a first
cause or force. To deny this fundamental affirmation of theism is to make
the teaching atheistic, a denial of that which is essential to theism
(Heb_11:3).

(3) Dogmatic

It absolutely denies the existence of God. It has often been held that this
is, in fact, impossible. Cousin has said, "It is impossible, because the
existence of God is implied in every assertion." It is true, however, that
in all ages there have been persons who declared themselves absolute
atheists. Especially is this true of the 18th century a period of widespread
skepticism - when not a few, particularly in France, professed themselves
atheists. In many cases, however, it resulted from a loose use of the word,
careless definition, and sometimes from the spirit of boastfulness.

(4) Practical Atheism

It has nothing at all to do with belief. Indeed it accepts the affirmations
of theism. It has reference wholly to the mode of life. It is to live as
though there was no God. It takes the form often of complete indifference to
the claims of the Divine Being or again of outbroken and defiant wickedness
(Psa_14:1). That this form of atheism is widely prevalent is well known. It
is accompanied in many cases with some form of unbelief or prejudice or
false opinion of the church or Christianity. Dogmatic atheism is no longer a
menace or even a hindrance to the progress of Christianity, but practical
atheism is widespread in its influence and a dangerous element in our modern
life (compare Isa_31:1; Jer_2:13, Jer_2:17, Jer_2:18; Jer_18:13-15).
Whatever the form, whether it be that of religious agnosticism, denying that
we can know that God exists, or critical atheism, denying that the evidence
to prove His existence is sufficient, or dogmatic, or practical atheism, it
is always a system of negation and as such tears down and destroys. It
destroys the faith upon which all human relations are built. Since there is
no God, there is no right nor wrong, and human action is neither good nor
bad, but convenient or inconvenient. It leaves human society without a basis
for order and human government without foundation (Rom 1:10-32). All is
hopeless, all is wretchedness, all is tending to the grave and the grave
ends all.

Arguments against atheism may be summarized as follows: (1) It is contrary
to reason. History has shown again and again how impossible it is to bring
the mind to rest in this doctrine. Although Buddhism is atheistic in its
teaching, idolatry is widespread in the lands where it prevails. While the
Positive Philosophy of Auguste Comte was based on a denial of the existence
of God, his attempt to found the new religion of humanity with rites and
ceremonies of worship reveals how the longing for worship cannot be
suppressed. It is a revelation of the fact so often seen in the history of
human thought, that the mind cannot rest in the tenets of atheism.

(2) It is contrary to human experience. All history testifies that there are
deep religious instincts within the human breast. To regard these as
deceptive and unreasonable would itself be utterly unreasonable and
unscientific. But the fact of such spiritual longing implies also that there
is a Being who is responsive to and can satisfy the cry of the heart
(Heb_11:6). In his Bampton Lectures Reville has said on this subject: "It
would be irrational in the last degree to lay down the existence of such a
need and such a tendency, and yet believe that the need corresponds to
nothing, that the tendency has no goal."

(3) It fails to account for the evidence of design in the universe. See
COSMOLOGY.

(4) It fails to account for the existence of man and the world in general.
Here is the universe: how did it come to be? Here is man: how is he to be
accounted for? To these and like questions, atheism and atheistic philosophy
have no adequate answer to give. See also COSMOLOGY; CREATION; GOD.

(International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)



Atheism

A'THEISM, n. The disbelief of the existence of a God, or Supreme intelligent
Being.

Atheism is a ferocious system that leaves nothing above us to excite awe,
nor around us, to awaken tenderness.

(Webster's 1828 Dictionary)



Psa 14:1 (A psalm by David for the music leader.) Only a fool would say,
"There is no God!" People like that are worthless; they are heartless and
cruel and never do right.

Psa 53:1 (A special psalm by David for the music leader. To the tune
"Mahalath.") Only a fool would say, "There is no God!" People like that are
worthless! They are heartless and cruel and never do right

Rom 1:19 They know everything that can be known about God, because God has
shown it all to them.

Rom 1:20 God's eternal power and character cannot be seen. But from the
beginning of creation, God has shown what these are like by all he has made.
That's why those people don't have any excuse.

(Contemporary English Version)
Christopher A.Lee
2008-01-08 17:50:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith
Atheism
a?´the??-iz'm (???????, a?theos, "without God" (Eph_2:12)): Ordinarily this
word is interpreted to mean a denial of the existence of God, a disbelief in
God, the opposite of theism. But it seems better that we should consider it
under four heads, in order to obtain a clear idea of the different meanings
in which it has been used.
The only people who think that, are theists who imagine the whole
world revolves around their god.

[four ignorant straw men deleted]

Why not use the one that actually describes us?

We're people who aren't theist.

Why can't you morons accept this?

And that we cannot be described according to theistic presumptions
that only apply inside the theist's religious paradigm because we are
part of the real world beyond your religion.
There aren't any.
Post by Keith
(1) It is contrary
to reason. History has shown again and again how impossible it is to bring
the mind to rest in this doctrine.
What "doctrine", moron?

IS not believing in the fairies at the bottom of the garden a doctrine
on your planet?
Post by Keith
Although Buddhism is atheistic in its
teaching, idolatry is widespread in the lands where it prevails. While the
Positive Philosophy of Auguste Comte was based on a denial of the existence
of God, his attempt to found the new religion of humanity with rites and
ceremonies of worship reveals how the longing for worship cannot be
suppressed. It is a revelation of the fact so often seen in the history of
human thought, that the mind cannot rest in the tenets of atheism.
What "tenets of atheism", brainwashed liar?
Post by Keith
(2) It is contrary to human experience. All history testifies that there are
deep religious instincts within the human breast. To regard these as
Only among those brainwashed that way, moron.
Post by Keith
deceptive and unreasonable would itself be utterly unreasonable and
unscientific. But the fact of such spiritual longing implies also that there
What "fact", liar?
Post by Keith
is a Being who is responsive to and can satisfy the cry of the heart
Prove it, moron.

Without stupidly citing the Bible as though it meant anything outside
your religion.
Post by Keith
(Heb_11:6). In his Bampton Lectures Reville has said on this subject: "It
would be irrational in the last degree to lay down the existence of such a
need and such a tendency, and yet believe that the need corresponds to
nothing, that the tendency has no goal."
He is as big a liar and an idiot as you are.
Post by Keith
(3) It fails to account for the evidence of design in the universe. See
COSMOLOGY.
What "evidence of design in the universe", liar?

Why do you morons imagine atheism = science or vice versa?
Post by Keith
(4) It fails to account for the existence of man and the world in general.
Here is the universe: how did it come to be? Here is man: how is he to be
accounted for? To these and like questions, atheism and atheistic philosophy
have no adequate answer to give. See also COSMOLOGY; CREATION; GOD.
Why the fuck should it, moron?

Does not believing in the fairies at the bottom of the garden tell
you what to have on your pizza?
Post by Keith
(International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)
What the fuck has the "International Standard Bible Encyclopedia" got
to do with reality, moron?
Post by Keith
Atheism
A'THEISM, n. The disbelief of the existence of a God, or Supreme intelligent
Being.
Atheism is a ferocious system that leaves nothing above us to excite awe,
nor around us, to awaken tenderness.
A liar and an idiot.

Is not believing in the fairies at the bottom of the garden, a
"ferocious system" on your planet, lying moron?
Post by Keith
(Webster's 1828 Dictionary)
A source written 180 years ago that couldn't be bothered to ask
atheists?

[irrelevant Bible rubbish deleted]

What is it with you in-our-face psychopaths?

Are you honestly incapable of grasping where your religions tops and
the real world starts?

And what message do you imagine you give when you come here and lie
about us to our faces, attacking what you are pig-ignorant about and
stupidly trying to justify it using mythology that is irrelevant
outside your religion?

You're pathetic, sociopathic, nasty and stupid.
Pastor Frank
2008-01-08 23:16:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A.Lee
What "tenets of atheism", brainwashed liar?
"There ain't no god(s)" is the chief tenet of atheism. Got any problems
with that, Christopher Lee? But then atheism does make people stupid,
doesn't it?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
DanielSan
2008-01-09 11:24:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Christopher A.Lee
What "tenets of atheism", brainwashed liar?
"There ain't no god(s)" is the chief tenet of atheism.
No, it's not a "tenet".
Post by Pastor Frank
Got any problems
with that, Christopher Lee? But then atheism does make people stupid,
doesn't it?
Says the person that believes that atheism has a "chief tenet".
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act *
* of the whole American people which declared that *
* their legislature should make no law respecting *
* an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the *
* free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of *
* separation between church and state." *
* --Thomas Jefferson, 1802 *
****************************************************
cactus
2008-01-09 18:12:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanielSan
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Christopher A.Lee
What "tenets of atheism", brainwashed liar?
"There ain't no god(s)" is the chief tenet of atheism.
No, it's not a "tenet".
Post by Pastor Frank
Got any problems with that, Christopher Lee? But then atheism does
make people stupid, doesn't it?
Says the person that believes that atheism has a "chief tenet".
Maybe he thinks that atheism is his landlord? :)
Pastor Frank
2008-01-09 16:47:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanielSan
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Christopher A.Lee
What "tenets of atheism", brainwashed liar?
"There ain't no god(s)" is the chief tenet of atheism.
No, it's not a "tenet".
Glad to see you come around to abandoning atheism. It's about time you
drop that silly and infantile notion you were taught as a small child, i.e.
that the word "god" means some invisible old ogre up in the sky, behind them
thar clouds, which will zap you if you are being a bad boy.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Mark K. Bilbo
2008-01-09 14:49:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Christopher A.Lee
What "tenets of atheism", brainwashed liar?
"There ain't no god(s)" is the chief tenet of atheism. Got any problems
with that, Christopher Lee? But then atheism does make people stupid,
doesn't it?
Well, given what religion has done to you, I'll take the opposite any
day...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and
glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach
their heart's desire at last, and the White House will
be adorned by a downright moron.”

- H. L. Mencken
les_on_usenet
2008-01-09 15:53:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Christopher A.Lee
What "tenets of atheism", brainwashed liar?
"There ain't no god(s)" is the chief tenet of atheism. Got any problems
with that, Christopher Lee?
I am sure he has since that is not the correct definition of atheism
but a definion of your choosing
Post by Pastor Frank
But then atheism does make people stupid,
Post by Pastor Frank
doesn't it?
Here you are again Frank seeking to denegrate and tear down
things of value as usual.

You have nothing worthwile to offer us Frank only hatred
arrogance and a desire to destroy that which you clearly do not
understand - as your many posts as cited below show only too clearly.

So go away.


I will add the above to your shamefull catalogue of hatred:

-----------------------------
Post by Pastor Frank
But then atheism does make people stupid,
Post by Pastor Frank
doesn't it?
Post by Christopher A.Lee
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:12:06 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
"That's because atheist doctrine
demands one look for and find only what's wrong and sad. There is no
option for atheists. !
This completely unjustified assertion was based in comments
about YOUR faults and NOBODY ELSES
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:19:52 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
That's only because atheist doctrine demands you ONLY look for
things
"stupid"
Same comment. That YOUR beliefs are found to be stupid does
not mean we find everything else to be stupid. Just to
give you one example: we think if VERY SENSIBLE not to
accept other peoples religious beliefs just on their say so.
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:14:11 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
"People want to see evidence of love and care in your ACTIONS!!! "
This screamed comment shows you arrogance by presuming
YOU are the PEOPLE and that we have to jusify ourselves to
you. We don't. You have no right to set yourself up as some
kind of judge to whom we must answer and be judged as you do
in all the above quotes.
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:14:11 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
That means you would sell out your loved ones if your health, let alone
your life were being threatened.
I very much doubt if you even see how grossy offensive and'
arrogant this remark is and I have yet to see any signs of
remorse by you for so insulting me.
Even my forgiveness brought no remorse jusr further arrogance
To find things wrong ...exclusively, is atheist doctrine, Les. That
is
why you cannot see, nor recognise "joy and happiness" in others.
To find things wrong with YOU (you tendancy to denegrate and
tear me and other down for example) does not mean we find EVERYTHING
wrong Frank. Just YOU
That we do not noy joy and happiness in YOU frank (quite the reverse
in fact) does not mean we do not find it in EVERYBODY.
Lets summarize all your attempts to denegrate and tear us down
so we can all see the big picture shall I
"That's because atheist doctrine
demands one look for and find only what's wrong and sad. There is no
option for atheists. !
----
That's only because atheist doctrine demands you ONLY look for
things
"stupid"
----
That means you would sell out your loved ones if your health, let alone
your life were being threatened.
---
To find things wrong ...exclusively, is atheist doctrine, Les. That
is
why you cannot see, nor recognise "joy and happiness" in others.
So you see Frank
To find things wrong ...exclusively, is YOUR doctrine, Frank
I have yet to see a comment from you that has EVER found
anything right
----------------------------------------------------------------





--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
Pastor Frank
2008-01-10 19:05:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Christopher A.Lee
What "tenets of atheism", brainwashed liar?
"There ain't no god(s)" is the chief tenet of atheism. Got any
problems with that, Christopher Lee?
I am sure he has since that is not the correct definition of atheism
but a definion of your choosing
But then atheism does make people stupid, doesn't it?
Here you are again Frank seeking to denegrate and tear down
things of value as usual.
Atheists proclaiming "things of value"? You got us all in knots of
apoplectic laughter. Snap out of it already Les!!!! Atheism isn't about
promoting "things of value", but about fulminating denial of what other
people regard as "things of value".
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Budd Cochran
2008-01-10 22:34:13 UTC
Permalink
What is the value of "nothing"???

Budd
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Christopher A.Lee
What "tenets of atheism", brainwashed liar?
"There ain't no god(s)" is the chief tenet of atheism. Got any
problems with that, Christopher Lee?
I am sure he has since that is not the correct definition of atheism
but a definion of your choosing
But then atheism does make people stupid, doesn't it?
Here you are again Frank seeking to denegrate and tear down
things of value as usual.
Atheists proclaiming "things of value"? You got us all in knots of
apoplectic laughter. Snap out of it already Les!!!! Atheism isn't about
promoting "things of value", but about fulminating denial of what other
people regard as "things of value".
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Virgil
2008-01-10 23:04:21 UTC
Permalink
Atheism only makes theists look stupid.
Budd Cochran
2008-01-11 01:44:40 UTC
Permalink
How do you figure that?

I mean, to me, your comment, so poorly written, makes you look like what you
accuse theists of being.

Budd
Post by Virgil
Atheism only makes theists look stupid.
Budd Cochran
2008-01-11 19:38:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Budd Cochran
How do you figure that?
By recognizing that theists believe irrational things unsupported by
any objective, verifiable evidence, and do rude things like top-post.
http://www.carm.org/
Post by Budd Cochran
I mean, to me, your comment, so poorly written, makes you look like what
you accuse theists of being.
How?
Read it again.
Post by Budd Cochran
Post by Virgil
Atheism only makes theists look stupid.
Budd
Dubh Ghall
2008-01-12 19:25:22 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:44:40 -0700, "Budd Cochran"
Post by Budd Cochran
How do you figure that?
I mean, to me, your comment, so poorly written, makes you look like what you
accuse theists of being.
Is "I'm not but you are", the best argument that you can muster?
Post by Budd Cochran
Budd
Post by Virgil
Atheism only makes theists look stupid.
Budd Cochran
2008-01-11 19:45:39 UTC
Permalink
With that statement, you express an absolute.

Budd
Post by Budd Cochran
What is the value of "nothing"???
It varies.
Dubh Ghall
2008-01-12 15:13:38 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:45:39 -0700, "Budd Cochran"
Post by Budd Cochran
Post by Budd Cochran
What is the value of "nothing"???
It varies.
With that statement, you express an absolute.
A variable, can be an absolute?

There's interesting.
Dubh Ghall
2008-01-12 15:07:20 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:34:13 -0700, "Budd Cochran"
Post by Budd Cochran
What is the value of "nothing"???
Define, "nothing".
les_on_usenet
2008-01-10 22:47:35 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:05:54 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Christopher A.Lee
What "tenets of atheism", brainwashed liar?
"There ain't no god(s)" is the chief tenet of atheism. Got any
problems with that, Christopher Lee?
I am sure he has since that is not the correct definition of atheism
but a definion of your choosing
But then atheism does make people stupid, doesn't it?
Here you are again Frank seeking to denegrate and tear down
things of value as usual.
Atheists proclaiming "things of value"? You got us all in knots of
apoplectic laughter. Snap out of it already Les!!!! Atheism isn't about
promoting "things of value", but about fulminating denial of what other
people regard as "things of value".
Since you seem only capable of scorn and hatred amply demonstrated by
you desire to denegrate and tear down things of value as clearly shown
above it is hardly suprising we find find your hate filled philosophy
wanting

Go away or stay it makes no difference since we know we can and do
better than that and you cannot tear us down or deflect us from that
no matter how hard you try. We bring hope for a better future free
from the dark and cold shadow of your philosophy. Love is an ideal?
No Frank it is real it is here and now. Sorry you are unable to share
it with you as you seem to prefer to get your amusement from scorn.


--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
Pastor Frank
2008-01-11 02:04:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:05:54 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Christopher A.Lee
What "tenets of atheism", brainwashed liar?
"There ain't no god(s)" is the chief tenet of atheism. Got any
problems with that, Christopher Lee?
I am sure he has since that is not the correct definition of atheism
but a definion of your choosing
But then atheism does make people stupid, doesn't it?
Here you are again Frank seeking to denegrate and tear down
things of value as usual.
Atheists proclaiming "things of value"? You got us all in knots of
apoplectic laughter. Snap out of it already Les!!!! Atheism isn't about
promoting "things of value", but about fulminating denial of what other
people regard as "things of value".
Since you seem only capable of scorn and hatred amply demonstrated by
you desire to denegrate and tear down things of value as clearly shown
above it is hardly suprising we find find your hate filled philosophy
wanting
Go away or stay it makes no difference since we know we can and do
better than that and you cannot tear us down or deflect us from that
no matter how hard you try. We bring hope for a better future free
from the dark and cold shadow of your philosophy. Love is an ideal?
No Frank it is real it is here and now. Sorry you are unable to share
it with you as you seem to prefer to get your amusement from scorn.
Thanks for proving my point. All you say in answer is non sequitur and
merely confirms my point, that atheism is isn't about promoting "things of
value", but about fulminating denial of what other people regard as "things
of value". LOL
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
les_on_usenet
2008-01-12 11:50:17 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:04:06 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:05:54 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Christopher A.Lee
What "tenets of atheism", brainwashed liar?
"There ain't no god(s)" is the chief tenet of atheism. Got any
problems with that, Christopher Lee?
I am sure he has since that is not the correct definition of atheism
but a definion of your choosing
But then atheism does make people stupid, doesn't it?
Here you are again Frank seeking to denegrate and tear down
things of value as usual.
Atheists proclaiming "things of value"? You got us all in knots of
apoplectic laughter. Snap out of it already Les!!!! Atheism isn't about
promoting "things of value", but about fulminating denial of what other
people regard as "things of value".
Since you seem only capable of scorn and hatred amply demonstrated by
you desire to denegrate and tear down things of value as clearly shown
above it is hardly suprising we find find your hate filled philosophy
wanting
Go away or stay it makes no difference since we know we can and do
better than that and you cannot tear us down or deflect us from that
no matter how hard you try. We bring hope for a better future free
from the dark and cold shadow of your philosophy. Love is an ideal?
No Frank it is real it is here and now. Sorry you are unable to share
it with you as you seem to prefer to get your amusement from scorn.
Thanks for proving my point. All you say in answer is non sequitur and
merely confirms my point, that atheism is isn't about promoting "things of
value", but about fulminating denial of what other people regard as "things
of value". LOL
This is a good example of Franks approach. His belief tells him that
anybody without it must be full of despair lacking in love and without
hope.

When confronted with the reality that we are far from being in despair
and actually happy and able to express joy* how does he reconcile
this fact with his belief?

Two ways. First he tries to deny this reality either by simply
ignoring it or by throwig scorn upon it. *I only recently told
him of my sharing the joy and happiness of a mother with her first
baby and of the love I could clearly see in her eyes. His belief
says that is not possible so he did not see it.

The other approach is to continually try to convince himself
we must be in despair and can only see only sadness
(as the many cites I have posted shows only too clearly)
to us his cites are clearly at variance with reality of course.
He seems to take a great deal of pleasure out of his midplaced
belief driven scorn but I wonder whether his laughter is
real and not just a nervouslaughter born out of shame for
his hatred.

Does he manage to convice himself? Clearly not as he would
stop. His belief drives him frantically deny reality.

We can take his scorn and his hatred with a light heart
as we know our happiness is far too strong to tear down
and our certain knowledge that love is real and within us
gives us the strength we need to see that his hatred
is just his despair and to pity him it. Sadly we cannot
help him.

Ye though we walk through the valley of the shadow of
Christian hatred and scorn
We will not fear their evil
For I need no rod and staff to walk tall nor need comforting.

" Let Beauty awake in the morn from beautiful dreams,
Beauty awake from rest!
Let Beauty awake
For Beauty's sake
In the hour when the birds awake in the brake
And the stars are bright in the west!

Let Beauty awake in the eve from the slumber of day,
Awake in the crimson eve!
In the day's dusk end
When the shades ascend,
Let her wake to the kiss of a tender friend,
To render again and receive!

- Robert Louis Stevenson (1850-1894)



--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
Pastor Frank
2008-01-13 02:55:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by les_on_usenet
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:04:06 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Thanks for proving my point. All you say in answer is non sequitur and
merely confirms my point, that atheism is isn't about promoting "things of
value", but about fulminating denial of what other people regard as "things
of value". LOL
This is a good example of Franks approach. His belief tells him that
anybody without it must be full of despair lacking in love and without
hope.
When confronted with the reality that we are far from being in despair
and actually happy and able to express joy* how does he reconcile
this fact with his belief?
Two ways. First he tries to deny this reality either by simply
ignoring it or by throwig scorn upon it. *I only recently told
him of my sharing the joy and happiness of a mother with her first
baby and of the love I could clearly see in her eyes. His belief
says that is not possible so he did not see it.
The other approach is to continually try to convince himself
we must be in despair and can only see only sadness
(as the many cites I have posted shows only too clearly)
to us his cites are clearly at variance with reality of course.
He seems to take a great deal of pleasure out of his midplaced
belief driven scorn but I wonder whether his laughter is
real and not just a nervouslaughter born out of shame for
his hatred.
Does he manage to convice himself? Clearly not as he would
stop. His belief drives him frantically deny reality.
We can take his scorn and his hatred with a light heart
as we know our happiness is far too strong to tear down
and our certain knowledge that love is real and within us
gives us the strength we need to see that his hatred
is just his despair and to pity him it. Sadly we cannot
help him.
Ye though we walk through the valley of the shadow of
Christian hatred and scorn
We will not fear their evil
For I need no rod and staff to walk tall nor need comforting.
" Let Beauty awake in the morn from beautiful dreams,
Beauty awake from rest!
Let Beauty awake
For Beauty's sake
In the hour when the birds awake in the brake
And the stars are bright in the west!
Let Beauty awake in the eve from the slumber of day,
Awake in the crimson eve!
In the day's dusk end
When the shades ascend,
Let her wake to the kiss of a tender friend,
To render again and receive!
- Robert Louis Stevenson (1850-1894)
All we see is you proving my point again, that you MUST complain
non-stop featuring your dis-satisfaction, if not your disillusionment with
reality.
So tell us already, when will we be seeing you enthused, fascinated,
captivated and invigorated sufficiently to praise and worship your ideals
and him who demonstrates them, as we do Christ? Complaining is what those in
hell do, ad infinitum and ad nauseam.
It's because of this requirement to complain bitterly and eternally,
that I quit atheism. Why not come and help us to find reasons to glorify and
exult in His glory? You cannot help to feel happier supporting and praising
rather than trashing and flaming.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
les_on_usenet
2008-01-13 17:15:34 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 21:55:25 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Ye though we walk through the valley of the shadow of
Christian hatred and scorn
We will not fear their evil
For I need no rod and staff to walk tall nor need comforting.
" Let Beauty awake in the morn from beautiful dreams,
Beauty awake from rest!
Let Beauty awake
For Beauty's sake
In the hour when the birds awake in the brake
And the stars are bright in the west!
Let Beauty awake in the eve from the slumber of day,
Awake in the crimson eve!
In the day's dusk end
When the shades ascend,
Let her wake to the kiss of a tender friend,
To render again and receive!
- Robert Louis Stevenson (1850-1894)
All we see is you proving my point again, that you MUST complain
non-stop featuring your dis-satisfaction, if not your disillusionment with
reality.
I think the following cites from Franks many posts needs no
comment,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by les_on_usenet
Post by Christopher A.Lee
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:12:06 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
"That's because atheist doctrine
demands one look for and find only what's wrong and sad. There is no
option for atheists. !
This completely unjustified assertion was based in comments
about YOUR faults and NOBODY ELSES
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:19:52 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
That's only because atheist doctrine demands you ONLY look for
things
"stupid"
Same comment. That YOUR beliefs are found to be stupid does
not mean we find everything else to be stupid. Just to
give you one example: we think if VERY SENSIBLE not to
accept other peoples religious beliefs just on their say so.
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:14:11 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
"People want to see evidence of love and care in your ACTIONS!!! "
This screamed comment shows you arrogance by presuming
YOU are the PEOPLE and that we have to jusify ourselves to
you. We don't. You have no right to set yourself up as some
kind of judge to whom we must answer and be judged as you do
in all the above quotes.
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:14:11 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
That means you would sell out your loved ones if your health, let alone
your life were being threatened.
I very much doubt if you even see how grossy offensive and'
arrogant this remark is and I have yet to see any signs of
remorse by you for so insulting me.
Even my forgiveness brought no remorse jusr further arrogance
To find things wrong ...exclusively, is atheist doctrine, Les. That
is
why you cannot see, nor recognise "joy and happiness" in others.
To find things wrong with YOU (you tendancy to denegrate and
tear me and other down for example) does not mean we find EVERYTHING
wrong Frank. Just YOU
That we do not noy joy and happiness in YOU frank (quite the reverse
in fact) does not mean we do not find it in EVERYBODY.
Lets summarize all your attempts to denegrate and tear us down
so we can all see the big picture shall I
"That's because atheist doctrine
demands one look for and find only what's wrong and sad. There is no
option for atheists. !
----
That's only because atheist doctrine demands you ONLY look for
things
"stupid"
----
That means you would sell out your loved ones if your health, let alone
your life were being threatened.
---
To find things wrong ...exclusively, is atheist doctrine, Les. That
is
why you cannot see, nor recognise "joy and happiness" in others.
So you see Frank
To find things wrong ...exclusively, is YOUR doctrine, Frank
I have yet to see a comment from you that has EVER found
anything right
----------
On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 15:11:43 -0500, "Pastor Frank" <***@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
To see only "unhappiness" and be consequently negative at all
times, is an atheist focus, and that is precisely why I abandoned

again the pleasure gained from hate driven
scorn of things of value
------------------
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:04:06 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Thanks for proving my point. All you say in answer is non sequitur and
merely confirms my point, that atheism is isn't about promoting "things of
value", but about fulminating denial of what other people regard as "things
of value". LOL
---------------

and now we have toda'ys to add to his long list of abuse against me:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 21:55:25 -0500, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
You cannot help to feel happier supporting and praising
rather than trashing and flaming.
-------------------------------------------------------------------


I still forgive you Frank since you know not what you do.

Go in peace if you can.


I KNOW not how it is with you -
I love the first and last,
The whole field of the present view,
The whole flow of the past.

One tittle of the things that are,
Nor you should change nor I -
One pebble in our path - one star
In all our heaven of sky.

Our lives, and every day and hour,
One symphony appear:
One road, one garden - every flower
And every bramble dear.
- R.L. Stevenson




--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County

Dubh Ghall
2008-01-08 20:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith
Atheism
(1) The Classical
(2) Philosophic
(3) Dogmatic
(4) Practical Atheism
(5) The rest of the xtian crap.
thomas p.
2008-01-08 20:39:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith
Atheism
a?Žthe??-iz'm (???????, a?theos, "without God" (Eph_2:12)): Ordinarily
this word is interpreted to mean a denial of the existence of God, a
disbelief in God,
That is right, now look up "disbelief". It means not believing. It does
not mean "denial". In other words you gave two possible definitions above
not one. I do not deny the existence of any god, but I do disbelieve in it;
that makes me an atheist by the definition you gave. Thank you.

snip
Pastor Frank
2008-01-09 16:54:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by thomas p.
Post by Keith
Atheism
a?Žthe??-iz'm (???????, a?theos, "without God" (Eph_2:12)): Ordinarily
this word is interpreted to mean a denial of the existence of God, a
disbelief in God,
That is right, now look up "disbelief". It means not believing. It does
not mean "denial". In other words you gave two possible definitions
above not one. I do not deny the existence of any god, but I do
disbelieve in it; that makes me an atheist by the definition you gave.
Thank you.
At least you got that right. Atheism is the disbelief in god(s), no
matter whether god(s) exist or not. However that's like saying I don't
believe in kings and queens etc. Because the word "God" is not a proper name
but a title of a position of whatever is your standard of virtue against
which you measure all behaviour.
I.e. In 2 Corinthians 4:4, Paul says that Satan is: "...the god (theos)
of this world", i.e. reality. And again in Philippians 3:19, Paul says there
are people: "...whose God (theos) is their belly", i.e. pleasure. Jesus
tells us in Jn:4:24 that His "GOD IS A SPIRIT, i.e. akin to a quality of
attitude, like love, and they that worship him must worship him in
spirit and in truth."
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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