Is God the Worst Criminal to ever exist?

[Rump Ranger]

Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities? Looking at the universe only two
conclusions can be drawn about God in regards to us (assuming if it
even exists, a major proposition which nobody can prove):

1. God doesn't give much of a shit about humanity so there's no point
in giving much of a crap about it.

or

2. The Judeo-Christian God of the Bible is the worst criminal to ever
exist. Consider this prime example from the book of Numbers:

How else can you explain the fact that he supported genocide of the
Midianites and having the 32000 surviving virgins (who were obviously
grieving the loss of their families and were violated by having their
vaginas inspected to see if the hymen was intact against their will)
sold into sex slavery? Is that moral?

Text from the Book of Numbers for all you thumpers to consider:

[quote]

http://www.bible.org/netbible2/index.php?header=&book=num&chapter=31

The Midianite War

31:11 The Lord spoke to Moses: 31:2 "Exact vengeance2 for the
Israelites on the Midianites3--after that you will be gathered to your
people."4

31:3 So Moses spoke to the people: "Arm5 men from among you for the
war, to go against the Midianites and to execute6 the vengeance of the
Lord on Midian. 31:4 You must send to the battle a thousand men from
every tribe throughout all the tribes of Israel."7 31:5 So a thousand
from every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war in all, were provided
out of the thousands of Israel.

Campaign Against the Midianites

31:6 So Moses sent them to the war, one thousand from every tribe, with
Phinehas son of Eleazar the priest, who was in charge8 of the holy
articles9 and the signal trumpets in his hand. 31:7 They fought against
the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed every
male.10 31:8 They killed the kings of Midian in addition to those
slain--Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba--five Midianite kings.11 They
also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.12

31:9 The Israelites took the women of Midian captives along with their
little ones, and took all their herds, all their flocks, and all their
goods as plunder. 31:10 They burned13 all their towns14 that they had
inhabited and all their encampments. 31:11 They took all the plunder
and all the spoils, both people and animals. 31:12 They brought the
captives and the spoils and the plunder to Moses, to Eleazar the
priest, and to the Israelite community, to the camp on the steppes of
Moab, along the Jordan River15 across from Jericho.16 31:13 Moses,
Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the community went out to
meet them outside the camp.

The Death of the Midianite Women

31:14 But Moses was furious with the officers of the army, the
commanders over thousands and commanders over hundreds, who had come
from service in the war. 31:15 Moses said to them, "Have you allowed
all the women to live?17 31:16 Look, these people through the counsel
of Balaam caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the Lord
in the matter of Peor--and there was the plague among the community of
the Lord. 31:17 Now therefore kill every boy,18 and kill every woman
who has had sexual intercourse with a man.19 31:18 But all the young
women20 who have not had sexual intercourse with a man21 will be
yours.22

Purification After Battle

31:19 "Any of you who has killed anyone or touched any of the dead,
remain outside the camp for seven days; purify yourselves and your
captives on the third day, and on the seventh day. 31:20 You must
purify each garment and everything that is made of skin, everything
made of goat's hair, and everything made of wood."23

31:21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the men of war who had gone into
the battle, "This is the ordinance of the law that the Lord commanded
Moses: 31:22 'Only the gold, the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin,
and the lead, 31:23 everything that may stand the fire, you are to pass
through the fire,24 and it will be clean, but then it must be purified
with the waters of impurity. Anything that cannot withstand the fire
you must pass through the water. 31:24 You must wash your clothes on
the seventh day, and you will be clean, and afterward you may come into
the camp.'"

The Distribution of Spoils

31:25 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 31:26 "You and Eleazar the priest,
and all the family heads of the community, take the sum25 of the
plunder that was captured, both people and animals. 31:27 Divide the
plunder into two parts, one for those who took part in the war, who
went out to battle, and the other for all the community.

31:28 "You must exact26 a tribute for the Lord from the men of war who
went out to battle: one life out of five hundred, from the people, the
cattle, and from the donkeys and the sheep. 31:29 You are to take it
from their half-share and give it to Eleazar the priest for a raised
offering to the Lord. 31:30 From the Israelites' half-share you are to
take one portion out of fifty of the people, the cattle, the donkeys,
and the sheep--from every kind of animal--and you are to give them to
the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the tabernacle of the
Lord."

31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:32 The spoil that remained of the plunder which the men27 of war had
gathered28 was 675,000 sheep, 31:33 72,000 cattle, 31:34 61,000
donkeys, 31:35 and 32,000 women who had never had sexual intercourse
with a man.29

31:36 The half-portion of those who went to war numbered 337,500 sheep;
31:37 the Lord's tribute from the sheep was 675. 31:38 The cattle
numbered30 36,000; the Lord's tribute was 72. 31:39 The donkeys were
30,500, of which the Lord's tribute was 61. 31:40 The people were
16,000, of which the Lord's tribute was 32 people.31

31:41 So Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord's raised offering,
to Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.

31:42 From the Israelites' half-share that Moses had separated from the
warriors,32 31:43 there were 337,500 sheep from the portion belonging
to the community, 31:44 36,000 cattle, 31:45 30,500 donkeys, 31:46 and
16,000 people.

31:47 From the Israelites' share Moses took one of every fifty people
and animals and gave them to the Levites who were responsible for the
care of the tabernacle of the Lord, as the Lord commanded Moses.

31:48 Then the officers who were over the thousands of the army, the
commanders over thousands and the commanders over hundreds, approached
Moses 31:49 and said to him,33 "Your servants have taken a count34 of
the men who were in the battle, who were under our authority,35 and not
one is missing. 31:50 So we have brought for an offering for the Lord
what each man found: gold ornaments, armlets, bracelets, signet rings,
earrings, and necklaces, to make atonement for ourselves36 before the
Lord."37 31:51 Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold from them,
all of it fashioned into ornaments. 31:52 All the gold of the offering
they had offered up to the Lord from the commanders of thousands and
the commanders of hundreds weighed 16,750 shekels.38 31:53 Each soldier
had taken plunder for himself. 31:54 So Moses and Eleazar the priest
received the gold from the commanders of thousands and commanders39 of
hundreds and brought it into the tent of meeting as a memorial40 for
the Israelites before the Lord.

[end quote]

Yeah, Twain mentions it in his Letters From the Earth but it's such a
great story to destroy such pompous ideas that the Bible is a book of
"high morals." How can *any* Christian square this story away with
being the same "loving" God that's supposed to be Jesus? Most *smart*
people would have excised such garbage as bad public relations for a
supposed all loving deity.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/bill_schultz/criminal-god.html

[Bill]

Most Christian have never read the Bible at all and those that have, have
not done it with any intellectual vigor.
Most do not realize that original documents have not existed for thousands
of years and the present Bibles venial interpretations of dozens of errant
copiers. The printing press was not invented until 1550 AD.

The books of the Bible are mostly abstruse ancient myths, folklore and
legend.

They church goers mostly rely on their preachers who select an distort
Bible quotes to accomplish their selfish motives - to keep those
contributions coming in!
--
Bill

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities? Looking at the universe only two
conclusions can be drawn about God in regards to us (assuming if it
1. God doesn't give much of a shit about humanity so there's no point
in giving much of a crap about it.
or
2. The Judeo-Christian God of the Bible is the worst criminal to ever
How else can you explain the fact that he supported genocide of the
Midianites and having the 32000 surviving virgins (who were obviously
grieving the loss of their families and were violated by having their
vaginas inspected to see if the hymen was intact against their will)
sold into sex slavery? Is that moral?
[quote]
http://www.bible.org/netbible2/index.php?header=&book=num&chapter=31
The Midianite War
31:11 The Lord spoke to Moses: 31:2 "Exact vengeance2 for the
Israelites on the Midianites3--after that you will be gathered to your
people."4
31:3 So Moses spoke to the people: "Arm5 men from among you for the
war, to go against the Midianites and to execute6 the vengeance of the
Lord on Midian. 31:4 You must send to the battle a thousand men from
every tribe throughout all the tribes of Israel."7 31:5 So a thousand
from every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war in all, were provided
out of the thousands of Israel.
Campaign Against the Midianites
31:6 So Moses sent them to the war, one thousand from every tribe, with
Phinehas son of Eleazar the priest, who was in charge8 of the holy
articles9 and the signal trumpets in his hand. 31:7 They fought against
the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed every
male.10 31:8 They killed the kings of Midian in addition to those
slain--Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba--five Midianite kings.11 They
also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.12
31:9 The Israelites took the women of Midian captives along with their
little ones, and took all their herds, all their flocks, and all their
goods as plunder. 31:10 They burned13 all their towns14 that they had
inhabited and all their encampments. 31:11 They took all the plunder
and all the spoils, both people and animals. 31:12 They brought the
captives and the spoils and the plunder to Moses, to Eleazar the
priest, and to the Israelite community, to the camp on the steppes of
Moab, along the Jordan River15 across from Jericho.16 31:13 Moses,
Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the community went out to
meet them outside the camp.
The Death of the Midianite Women
31:14 But Moses was furious with the officers of the army, the
commanders over thousands and commanders over hundreds, who had come
from service in the war. 31:15 Moses said to them, "Have you allowed
all the women to live?17 31:16 Look, these people through the counsel
of Balaam caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the Lord
in the matter of Peor--and there was the plague among the community of
the Lord. 31:17 Now therefore kill every boy,18 and kill every woman
who has had sexual intercourse with a man.19 31:18 But all the young
women20 who have not had sexual intercourse with a man21 will be
yours.22
Purification After Battle
31:19 "Any of you who has killed anyone or touched any of the dead,
remain outside the camp for seven days; purify yourselves and your
captives on the third day, and on the seventh day. 31:20 You must
purify each garment and everything that is made of skin, everything
made of goat's hair, and everything made of wood."23
31:21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the men of war who had gone into
the battle, "This is the ordinance of the law that the Lord commanded
Moses: 31:22 'Only the gold, the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin,
and the lead, 31:23 everything that may stand the fire, you are to pass
through the fire,24 and it will be clean, but then it must be purified
with the waters of impurity. Anything that cannot withstand the fire
you must pass through the water. 31:24 You must wash your clothes on
the seventh day, and you will be clean, and afterward you may come into
the camp.'"
The Distribution of Spoils
31:25 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 31:26 "You and Eleazar the priest,
and all the family heads of the community, take the sum25 of the
plunder that was captured, both people and animals. 31:27 Divide the
plunder into two parts, one for those who took part in the war, who
went out to battle, and the other for all the community.
31:28 "You must exact26 a tribute for the Lord from the men of war who
went out to battle: one life out of five hundred, from the people, the
cattle, and from the donkeys and the sheep. 31:29 You are to take it
from their half-share and give it to Eleazar the priest for a raised
offering to the Lord. 31:30 From the Israelites' half-share you are to
take one portion out of fifty of the people, the cattle, the donkeys,
and the sheep--from every kind of animal--and you are to give them to
the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the tabernacle of the
Lord."
31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:32 The spoil that remained of the plunder which the men27 of war had
gathered28 was 675,000 sheep, 31:33 72,000 cattle, 31:34 61,000
donkeys, 31:35 and 32,000 women who had never had sexual intercourse
with a man.29
31:36 The half-portion of those who went to war numbered 337,500 sheep;
31:37 the Lord's tribute from the sheep was 675. 31:38 The cattle
numbered30 36,000; the Lord's tribute was 72. 31:39 The donkeys were
30,500, of which the Lord's tribute was 61. 31:40 The people were
16,000, of which the Lord's tribute was 32 people.31
31:41 So Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord's raised offering,
to Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:42 From the Israelites' half-share that Moses had separated from the
warriors,32 31:43 there were 337,500 sheep from the portion belonging
to the community, 31:44 36,000 cattle, 31:45 30,500 donkeys, 31:46 and
16,000 people.
31:47 From the Israelites' share Moses took one of every fifty people
and animals and gave them to the Levites who were responsible for the
care of the tabernacle of the Lord, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:48 Then the officers who were over the thousands of the army, the
commanders over thousands and the commanders over hundreds, approached
Moses 31:49 and said to him,33 "Your servants have taken a count34 of
the men who were in the battle, who were under our authority,35 and not
one is missing. 31:50 So we have brought for an offering for the Lord
what each man found: gold ornaments, armlets, bracelets, signet rings,
earrings, and necklaces, to make atonement for ourselves36 before the
Lord."37 31:51 Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold from them,
all of it fashioned into ornaments. 31:52 All the gold of the offering
they had offered up to the Lord from the commanders of thousands and
the commanders of hundreds weighed 16,750 shekels.38 31:53 Each soldier
had taken plunder for himself. 31:54 So Moses and Eleazar the priest
received the gold from the commanders of thousands and commanders39 of
hundreds and brought it into the tent of meeting as a memorial40 for
the Israelites before the Lord.
[end quote]
Yeah, Twain mentions it in his Letters From the Earth but it's such a
great story to destroy such pompous ideas that the Bible is a book of
"high morals." How can *any* Christian square this story away with
being the same "loving" God that's supposed to be Jesus? Most *smart*
people would have excised such garbage as bad public relations for a
supposed all loving deity.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/bill_schultz/criminal-god.html

[F.H.]

Post by Bill
The books of the Bible are mostly abstruse ancient myths, folklore and
legend.
They church goers mostly rely on their preachers who select an distort
Bible quotes to accomplish their selfish motives

What's a reasonable expectation for primates?

[Ike]

Post by F.H.

Post by Bill
The books of the Bible are mostly abstruse ancient myths, folklore and
legend.
They church goers mostly rely on their preachers who select an distort
Bible quotes to accomplish their selfish motives

What's a reasonable expectation for primates?

Define primate.

[F.H.]

Post by Ike

Post by F.H.

Post by Bill
The books of the Bible are mostly abstruse ancient myths, folklore and
legend.
They church goers mostly rely on their preachers who select an distort
Bible quotes to accomplish their selfish motives

What's a reasonable expectation for primates?

Define primate.

Tune in Jerry Spinger or Jerry Falwell.

[Tim and Lisa]

Post by F.H.

Post by Ike

Post by F.H.

Post by Bill
The books of the Bible are mostly abstruse ancient myths, folklore and
legend.
They church goers mostly rely on their preachers who select an distort
Bible quotes to accomplish their selfish motives

What's a reasonable expectation for primates?

Define primate.

Tune in Jerry Spinger or Jerry Falwell.

Can I get a tit shot! JERRY JERRY JERRY

[Horatio]

F.H. wrote:
|| Bill wrote:
||
||| The books of the Bible are mostly abstruse ancient myths, folklore
||| and legend.
||
||| They church goers mostly rely on their preachers who select an
||| distort Bible quotes to accomplish their selfish motives
||
|| What's a reasonable expectation for primates?

Loose shoes and tight pussy?

[Lech K. Lesiak]

Post by Bill
The books of the Bible are mostly abstruse ancient myths, folklore and
legend.

That's exactly what Tom Harpur writes in 'The Pagan Christ',

Not a particularly well-written book IMHO, but impressive.

Cheers,
Lech

[Horatio]

Lech K. Lesiak wrote:
|| On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Bill wrote:
||
|||
||| The books of the Bible are mostly abstruse ancient myths, folklore
||| and legend.
||
|| That's exactly what Tom Harpur writes in 'The Pagan Christ',
||
|| Not a particularly well-written book IMHO, but impressive.
||
|| Cheers,
|| Lech

Any idiot, these days, can get a book published.

[Craig S.]

Post by Horatio
Any idiot, these days, can get a book published.

When's yours coming out?

[Craig S.]

Hey, I learned a new word; abstruse. Thanks.

[David M]

Post by Craig S.
Hey, I learned a new word; abstruse. Thanks.

Ya'd hafta be obtuse not to know about abstruse. ;-)

[duke]

Post by Bill
Most Christian have never read the Bible at all and those that have, have
not done it with any intellectual vigor.
Most do not realize that original documents have not existed for thousands
of years and the present Bibles venial interpretations of dozens of errant
copiers. The printing press was not invented until 1550 AD.

But why does it make the stories wrong?

Post by Bill
The books of the Bible are mostly abstruse ancient myths, folklore and
legend.

And truth.


duke
In God We Trust
*****
Matthew 7
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,'
will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he
who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
*****

[Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)]

Post by duke

Post by Bill
Most Christian have never read the Bible at all and those that have, have
not done it with any intellectual vigor.
Most do not realize that original documents have not existed for thousands
of years and the present Bibles venial interpretations of dozens of errant
copiers. The printing press was not invented until 1550 AD.

But why does it make the stories wrong?

People love to embellish stories to make them sound better.
Just look at our magazine media.
How many times have you heard rumours about a celebrity and then during an
interview with the celebrity he/she says with a gob smacked expression "this
is the first I've heard of this".

Post by duke

Post by Bill
The books of the Bible are mostly abstruse ancient myths, folklore and
legend.

And truth.

--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved - to
others, nor disproved (agnostic).

Light casts the darkest shadows when coming from only one source.

"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)

Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner

[Al Klein]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 09:29:23 +1100, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<***@optushome.com.au> said in alt.atheism:

[piggybacking]

Post by duke

Post by Bill
Most Christian have never read the Bible at all and those that have, have
not done it with any intellectual vigor.
Most do not realize that original documents have not existed for thousands
of years and the present Bibles venial interpretations of dozens of errant
copiers. The printing press was not invented until 1550 AD.

But why does it make the stories wrong?

There's no burden to prove the stories wrong, Earl, it's YOUR burden
to prove then accurate if you claim they are. And you can't, since
the earliest SCRAP of original bible we know of was written around 100
years after Jesus supposedly died (125 AD, and that's just a part of
one sentence) - WAY too long for the author to have been there at the
time.

[Lech K. Lesiak]

Post by Al Klein
There's no burden to prove the stories wrong, Earl, it's YOUR burden
to prove then accurate if you claim they are. And you can't, since
the earliest SCRAP of original bible we know of was written around 100
years after Jesus supposedly died (125 AD, and that's just a part of
one sentence) - WAY too long for the author to have been there at the
time.

I agree with your thesis, but I think some of your detail is incorrect.

As I understand it, the earliest of the gospels was written somewhere
around the year 50 AD. According to Tom Harpur in 'The Pagan Christ', the
earliest of the gospels that actually mentions Christ was produced around
80 AD.

In any case, the gospels, although attributed to apostles, were written by
unkown authors who never met the Christ.

Pretty dodgy documentation, IMHO.

As I've said on many occasions when talking with bible pounders, the
Mormons have better written evidence for their beliefs than christians,
and who believes the Mormons.

Personally I don't find golden tablets brought by angels any more
outrageous than rising from the dead and ascending to heaven.

Cheers,
Lech

[Al Klein]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:10:15 -0700, "Lech K. Lesiak"

Post by Lech K. Lesiak

Post by Al Klein
There's no burden to prove the stories wrong, Earl, it's YOUR burden
to prove then accurate if you claim they are. And you can't, since
the earliest SCRAP of original bible we know of was written around 100
years after Jesus supposedly died (125 AD, and that's just a part of
one sentence) - WAY too long for the author to have been there at the
time.

I agree with your thesis, but I think some of your detail is incorrect.
As I understand it, the earliest of the gospels was written somewhere
around the year 50 AD.

The earliest actual manuscript we have has been dated ca 125 AD. The
rest is conjecture.

Post by Lech K. Lesiak
According to Tom Harpur in 'The Pagan Christ', the
earliest of the gospels that actually mentions Christ was produced around
80 AD.

Maybe. We have no biblical manuscript that old.

[GaryE]

Post by Al Klein
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:10:15 -0700, "Lech K. Lesiak"

Post by Lech K. Lesiak

Post by Al Klein
There's no burden to prove the stories wrong, Earl, it's YOUR burden
to prove then accurate if you claim they are. And you can't, since
the earliest SCRAP of original bible we know of was written around 100
years after Jesus supposedly died (125 AD, and that's just a part of
one sentence) - WAY too long for the author to have been there at the
time.

I agree with your thesis, but I think some of your detail is incorrect.
As I understand it, the earliest of the gospels was written somewhere
around the year 50 AD.

The earliest actual manuscript we have has been dated ca 125 AD. The
rest is conjecture.

Post by Lech K. Lesiak
According to Tom Harpur in 'The Pagan Christ', the
earliest of the gospels that actually mentions Christ was produced around
80 AD.

Maybe. We have no biblical manuscript that old.

Paul's epistles which certainly mention Christ were written about
60AD, certainly within the life of Paul.

There is no agreement on the Gospels. Some say 50AD which would put
it in the same generation. As reported in "The Case For Christ" by
Lee Strobel, who interviewed scholars and authorities.

The number of copies of the original manuscripts is in the thousands
so that errors and changes would have been easy to pin point. Yes
just about all of these many copies done in 100+ time frame are
consistent. Many other ancient texts are accepted as authentic even
with a single copy of a few.

I would have no problem accepting a valid debunk of the gospels but I
find that argument (and it is argued) of when they were written
doesn't really mean much in a larger context. It seems to me that
they are fairly authentic and the authorship could as easily be who
they say they are as not. Occam says the simple answer is that the
author is who they say they are, particularly given the sheer volume
of manuscripts circulating after 100 AD. YMMV

Best,
GaryE

[Al Klein]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:04:37 -0600, GaryE

Post by GaryE

Post by Al Klein
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:10:15 -0700, "Lech K. Lesiak"

Post by Lech K. Lesiak
According to Tom Harpur in 'The Pagan Christ', the
earliest of the gospels that actually mentions Christ was produced around
80 AD.

Maybe. We have no biblical manuscript that old.

Paul's epistles which certainly mention Christ were written about
60AD, certainly within the life of Paul.

Maybe. We have no biblical manuscript that old.

You seem to not understand the difference between the supposed date of
writing of a piece of scripture and the actual dated age of a piece of
manuscript.

My copy of the US Constitution is about 10 years old, but it can't be
used to date the writing of the actual Constitution.

The ONLY actual pieces of writing that are even a small part of the NT
(and the one dated to ~125 AD is only part of one sentence) are dated
no earlier than ~125 AD. We have NOTHING - not one scrap - of the NT
that was written earlier than that.

[GaryE]

Post by Al Klein

Post by GaryE

Post by Al Klein
Maybe. We have no biblical manuscript that old.

Paul's epistles which certainly mention Christ were written about
60AD, certainly within the life of Paul.

Maybe. We have no biblical manuscript that old.
You seem to not understand the difference between the supposed date of
writing of a piece of scripture and the actual dated age of a piece of
manuscript.
My copy of the US Constitution is about 10 years old, but it can't be
used to date the writing of the actual Constitution.
The ONLY actual pieces of writing that are even a small part of the NT
(and the one dated to ~125 AD is only part of one sentence) are dated
no earlier than ~125 AD. We have NOTHING - not one scrap - of the NT
that was written earlier than that.

It's really irrelevant to me. It doesn't prove anything. There are
no original manuscripts of Homer's Illiad either.

Best,
GaryE

[William]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:27:33 -0600, GaryE

Post by GaryE

Post by Al Klein
The ONLY actual pieces of writing that are even a small part of the NT
(and the one dated to ~125 AD is only part of one sentence) are dated
no earlier than ~125 AD. We have NOTHING - not one scrap - of the NT
that was written earlier than that.

It's really irrelevant to me. It doesn't prove anything. There are
no original manuscripts of Homer's Illiad either.

And nobody takes a lot of notice of that either. Maybe there's a
connection.

William

[stoney]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:27:33 -0600, GaryE

Post by GaryE

Post by Al Klein

Post by GaryE

Post by Al Klein
Maybe. We have no biblical manuscript that old.

Paul's epistles which certainly mention Christ were written about
60AD, certainly within the life of Paul.

Maybe. We have no biblical manuscript that old.
You seem to not understand the difference between the supposed date of
writing of a piece of scripture and the actual dated age of a piece of
manuscript.
My copy of the US Constitution is about 10 years old, but it can't be
used to date the writing of the actual Constitution.
The ONLY actual pieces of writing that are even a small part of the NT
(and the one dated to ~125 AD is only part of one sentence) are dated
no earlier than ~125 AD. We have NOTHING - not one scrap - of the NT
that was written earlier than that.

It's really irrelevant to me.

Facts aren't important to the superstitious.

Post by GaryE
It doesn't prove anything.

What it indicates is there is no evidence, at this point in time, that
any part of the NT was written before the date Al indicated. Anyone
can date anything however they wish. However, if the formulation of
the paper doesn't match the paper used at the time with the same
atomic decay then there's no reason to take it seriously.

Post by GaryE
There are no original manuscripts of Homer's Illiad either.

Non sequitor.

Sucks for you.

[GaryE]

Post by stoney

Post by GaryE
It's really irrelevant to me.

Facts aren't important to the superstitious.

They must not be important to you either. I am an agnostic. Who would
want to believe something that can't be proved like a theist or
atheist? All you got is argument and you don't do that very well.

Post by stoney

Post by GaryE
It doesn't prove anything.

What it indicates is there is no evidence, at this point in time, that
any part of the NT was written before the date Al indicated.

Well, fuck, if Al wrote it, it must be true.


Anyone

Post by stoney
can date anything however they wish.

And that road runs two ways.


However, if the formulation of

Post by stoney
the paper doesn't match the paper used at the time with the same
atomic decay then there's no reason to take it seriously.

Proving what?

Post by stoney

Post by GaryE
There are no original manuscripts of Homer's Illiad either.

Non sequitor.

If you can't get the analogy, then it speaks to you elementary school
mentality.
Garbaby

[Al Klein]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:37:19 -0600, GaryE

Post by GaryE

Post by stoney

Post by GaryE
It's really irrelevant to me.

Facts aren't important to the superstitious.

They must not be important to you either. I am an agnostic. Who would
want to believe something that can't be proved like a theist or
atheist?

An 'agnostic' who doesn't understand either agnosticism or atheism.
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist? (You either have
belief in at least one god or you lack belief in any god - there's no
third possibility.)

Post by GaryE

Post by stoney

Post by GaryE
There are no original manuscripts of Homer's Illiad either.

Non sequitor.

If you can't get the analogy, then it speaks to you elementary school
mentality.

Things like the bible were written down in Saul's day. Things like
the Iliad weren't in Homer's day. Not analogous.
--
"Does it ever amaze anyone else how little faith some heterosexuals have
in heterosexuality? It's supposed to be this god-given human instinct
that only the warped and perverted ever stray from; but, it seems, if we
once tell our straight children a message even as mild as "some people
are gay, and that's all right," that'll be enough to send lil' Suzy into
the arms of women forever. It's a wonder the race has survived this
long, really..."
- ***@deimos.ucs.umass.edu Charles M Seaton (21 Dec 1994)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net

[stoney]

Post by Al Klein
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:37:19 -0600, GaryE

Post by GaryE

Post by stoney

Post by GaryE
It's really irrelevant to me.

Facts aren't important to the superstitious.

They must not be important to you either. I am an agnostic. Who would
want to believe something that can't be proved like a theist or
atheist?

An 'agnostic' who doesn't understand either agnosticism or atheism.
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist? (You either have
belief in at least one god or you lack belief in any god - there's no
third possibility.)

Post by GaryE

Post by stoney

Post by GaryE
There are no original manuscripts of Homer's Illiad either.

Non sequitor.

If you can't get the analogy, then it speaks to you elementary school
mentality.

Things like the bible were written down in Saul's day. Things like
the Iliad weren't in Homer's day. Not analogous.

You know that and I know that. Drooling moron doesn't.

[stoney]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:37:19 -0600, GaryE

Post by GaryE

Post by stoney

Post by GaryE
It's really irrelevant to me.

Facts aren't important to the superstitious.

They must not be important to you either. I am an agnostic.

Agnostic about what?

Post by GaryE
Who would want to believe something that can't be proved like a theist or
atheist? All you got is argument and you don't do that very well.

I notice you have that problem, yes.

Post by GaryE

Post by stoney

Post by GaryE
It doesn't prove anything.

What it indicates is there is no evidence, at this point in time, that
any part of the NT was written before the date Al indicated.

Well, fuck, if Al wrote it, it must be true.

Cowardly, and stupid. No surprise.

Post by GaryE
Anyone can date anything however they wish.
And that road runs two ways.

Terminally ignorant as well.

Post by GaryE
However, if the formulation of

Post by stoney
the paper doesn't match the paper used at the time with the same
atomic decay then there's no reason to take it seriously.

Proving what?

DUH! Can you say misrepresented or forgery?

Post by GaryE

Post by stoney

Post by GaryE
There are no original manuscripts of Homer's Illiad either.

Non sequitor.

If you can't get the analogy, then it speaks to you elementary school
mentality.

If I'm 'elementary' then you're pre-birth.

I did get the analogy, dumbshit. Look up 'non sequitor' if you can
figure out how a dictionary works.

Oh, and don't bother with the drivel you consider a 'reply.' I've got
more productive things to do like rearranging my sock drawer.

[GaryE]

Post by William
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:27:33 -0600, GaryE
Sucks for you.

Here birdbrain, read this one:



Doesn`t this give you a warm fuzzy feeling?


1.God, the mass murderer. Gen.7:4, 19:24
2.God tells Abraham to kill his second son for a burnt offering
Gen.22:2, 10
3.God threatens to kill the Pharaoh's firstborn son Ex.4:23
4.God murders the Egyptian firstborn humans and animals Ex.12:30
5.God drowns Pharaoh's army Ex.14:27-28
6."The Lord is a man of war." Ex.15:3
7.Children who strike their parents are to be killed Ex.21:15
8.It's OK to beat a slave as long as he lives a day or two "for he
is his money" Ex.21:20-21
9."Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Ex.22:18
10.You must kill those who worship another god Ex.22:20
11.If you make God angry, he will kill you with his own sword
Ex.22:24
12.Sabbath breakers must be killed Ex.31:14-15, 35:2
13.God tells every man to slay "his brother, companion, neighbor."
Ex.32:27
14.God kills Aaron's sons for offering "strange fire before the
Lord." Lev.10:1-2
15.Children who curse their parents, adulterers, and homosexuals
must be killed. Lev.20:9-12
16.Woman with "familiar spirits" must be stoned to death. Lev.20:27
17.The unchaste daughters of priests must be burnt to death.
Lev.21:9
18.Cursers and blasphemers must be stoned to death. Lev.24:16, 24
19."Ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it."
Lev.26:16
20.God will "send wild beasts among you, which shall rob your of
your children." Lev.26:22
21."And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your
daughters shall ye eat." Lev.26:30
22.Strangers are to be killed. Num.1:51, 3:10, 3:38, 18:7
23.God kills Aaron's sons for offering "strange fire before the
Lord." Num.3:4, 26:61
24.Don't touch or look at "any holy thing" or God will kill you.
Num.4:15, 20
25.The law of jealousies Num.5:11-31
26.God hates whiners. If God hears you complain he'll burn you to
death. Num.11:1
27.Don't gather sticks on the sabbath day. Num.15:32-36
28.God buries alive Korah and his family. Num.16:27-35, 26:10
29.God burns to death 250 men. Num.16:35, 26:10
30.God kills 14,700 with a plague. Num.16:41-50
31.God sends "fiery serpent" to bite the people. Num.21:6
32.God's people will "rise up ... and drink the blood of the slain."
Num.23:24
33.God will "eat up the nations of his enemies, and shall break
their bones, and pierce them through
with his arrows." Num.24:8
34.God tells Moses to "take all the heads of the people and hang
them up before the Lord." Num.25:4
35.God's hero (Phinehas) thrusts a javelin through a man and his
Midianite wife's belly. Num.25:7-8
36.God kills 24,000 (23,000 according to 1 Cor.10:8) in a plague.
Num.25:9
37.Moses tells his men to kill all the males and non-virgin women,
but to keep all the virgins alive for
themselves. Num.31:14-18
38.God hardens King Sihon's spirit and then kills him and all the
men, women, and "little ones" in his
kingdom. Dt.2:30-34
39.God delivers Og into Moses' hands, who then kills every man,
woman, and child in every city.
Dt.3:3-6
40.God tells the Israelites to kill everyone in the lands that that
they conquer and to "show no mercy
unto them." Dt.7:2
41.Kill any prophets or "dreamers of dreams" if they say or dream
the wrong things. Dt.13:1-5
42.Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different
than your own. Dt.13:6-10
43.Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that
worship differently than you.
Dt.13:12-16
44.Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than
your own. Dt.17:2-7
45.Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Dt.17:12-13
46.Kill any false prophets. Dt.18:20
47.Kill all the men and boys in the cities that God "delivers into
your hands," but keep the women for
yourself. Dt.20:13-15
48.Kill everything that breathes in the cities that God gives you
for an inheritance. Dt.20:16
49.Kill rebellious or disobedient sons. Dt.21:18-21
50.Women, be sure to keep the tokens of your virginity. Otherwise
the men of your city may stone
you to death. Dt.22:13-21
51.Kill adulterers. Dt.22:2
52.Kill rape victims if they fail to cry out loud enough.
Dt.22:23-34
53.You must cut off a woman's hand if she touches the "secrets" of a
man who is fighting with her
husband. "And thine eye shall not pity her." Dt.25:11-12
54.If you misbehave, God will make you eat your sons and daughters.
Dt.28:53, 28:55 28:56-67
55.Don't make God angry or he'll burn or starve you to death. If
that fails, he'll have some animals eat
you or snakes bite you. As a last resort he'll kill you with "the
sword without, and terror within."
He'll "destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling
also with the man of gray hairs."
Dt.32:23-25
56."I [God] will make mine arrows drunk with blood and my sword
shall devour flesh." Dt.32:42
57.Joshua killed "everything that breathed" in each of the cities
that he conquered, "as the Lord God of
Israel commanded." Jos.6:21, 8:24-26, 10:28-29, 10:32-33, 10:35,
10:37, 10:38, 10:40, 11:8, 11:11,
11:12, 11:14, 11:21
58.If you happen to see "the accursed thing," don't touch it. If you
do, you, your family, and all of
your animals must be burned. Jos.7:1-26
59.God gets right in and fights with the Israelites. He "slew them
with a great slaughter" and even
"chased them along the way." What a guy. Jos.10:10
60.God threw down "great stones from heaven" so that he could kill
even more people than the
Israelites "slew with the sword." Jos.10:11
61."The Lord fought for Israel." Jos.10:14
62.Cutting off the thumbs and big toes of 71 kings. Jg.1:6-7
63.Ehud's message from God. Jg.3:20-22
64.Jael drives a tent stake through her guest's head. For this she
is "blessed above women."
Jg.4:17-23, 5:24-26
65.Jephthah sacrifices his daughter to God. Jg.11:29-39
66.The spirit of God comes mightily upon Samson (and he kills
things). Jg.14:6, 14:19, 15:14-16
67.Samson catches 300 foxes, ties their tails together, and sets
them on fire. Jg.15:4-5
68.Samson kills 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass. Jg.14:15-16
69.The Levite and his concubine. Jg.19:22-30
70.God smites the Philistines with hemorrhoids in their secret
parts. 1 Sam.5:9
71.God kills 50,070 men for looking into the ark of the Lord. 1
Sam.6:19
72."I will make a covenant with you, that I may thrust your eyes
out." 1 Sam.11:2
73.The spirit of the Lord comes upon Samuel so he hacks some oxen in
pieces and sends the pieces to
all the coasts of Israel. 1 Sam.11:7
74.God orders Saul to kill every Amalekite "man and woman, infant
and suckling, ox and sheep, camel
and ass." 1 Sam.15:3
75.David buys a wife with 200 Philistine foreskins (twice the asking
price). 1 Sam.18:25-27
76.Killing those that "pisseth against the wall." 1 Sam.25:22, 26:34

77.David kills all the Amalekites again (see 15:7-8 where Saul kills
them all the first time). 1
Sam.27:8-11
78.Smiting "under the fifth rib." 2 Sam.2:23, 3:27, 4:6, 20:10
79.David has his "young men" kill people, cut off their hands and
feet, and hang them up over a pool.
2 Sam.4:12
80.Whoever kills the lame and the blind "that are hated of David's
soul" shall be made "chief and
captain." 2 Sam.5:8
81.Uzzah is killed by God for trying to protect the ark from
falling. 2 Sam.6:6
82.To punish David for having Uriah killed, God kills David's
newborn son. 2 Sam.12:15, 18
83.David tortures people with saws, axes, and fire. 2 Sam.12:31
84.Hanging dead bodies up "unto the Lord." 2 Sam.21:6, 9
85.God kills a couple hundred thousand people to punish David for
having a census. 2 Sam.24:15
86.Solomon kills 22,000 oxen and 120,000 sheep when dedicating the
temple to his bloodthirsty God.
1Kg.8:63
87.God kills everyone "that pisseth against the wall." 1 Kg.14:10,
16:11, 21:21
88.Those that die in the city will be eaten by dogs, while those
that die in the country will be eaten by
fowls. 1 Kg.14:11, 16:4
89.Killing everything that breathes for a loving God. 1 Kg.15:29
90.Laying the foundation for a city using your firstborn child and
using your youngest son to set up
the gates. 1 Kg.16:34
91.When many people are needlessly slaughtered, you will know that
the Lord is God. 1 Kg.20:28
92.Stoning blasphemers to death. 1 Kg.21:13
93.God's dog food. 1 Kg.21:19, 21:23
94.Elijah proves that he is a man of God by burning to death 102
men. 2 Kg.1:10, 12
95.God sends two bears to rip up 42 little children for making fun
of Elisha's bald head. 2 Kg.2:23-24
96.Elisha makes his servant (Gehazi) and all of his descendants
lepers forever. 2 Kg.5:27
97.God answers Elisha's prayer by smiting his adversaries with
blindness. 2 Kg.6:18
98.Mothers boiling and eating their own children. 2 Kg.6:28-29
99.God sends a famine on the people that lasts for seven years. 2
Kg.8:1
100.God has Jezebel thrown off a wall and feeds her body to the dogs.
2 Kg.9:33-37
101.The 70 sons of Ahab are killed and their heads are put in
baskets. 2 Kg.10:7-8
102.Jehu shows off his "zeal for the Lord" by murdering everyone in
Samaria. 2 Kg.10:16-17
103.God, the divine physician, strikes king Azariah with leprosy. 2
Kg.15:5
104.God sends lions to devour the Samaritans because "they knew not
the manner of the God of the
land." 2 Kg.17:25-26
105.An angel of the Lord kills 185,000 men while they sleep. "And
when they arose, behold, they were
all dead corpses." 2 Kg.19:35
106.God kills Uzza for trying to keep the ark from falling. 1
Chr.13:9-10
107.David tortures all the inhabitants of several cities with saws,
harrows of iron, and axes. 1 Chr.20:3
108.God kills 70,000 men because David had a census. 1 Chr.21:7-14
109.Esther has two men hung on a tree. Est.2:23
110.Esther has Hamam hung. Est.7:10
111.Esther has Haman's ten sons hung. Est.9:13
112.God (or Satan) kills Job's children in a windstorm. Job 1:19
113.Satan (or God) smites Job with boils from the "sole of his foot
unto his crown." Job 2:7
114.God will hit the heathens with a rod of iron and "dash them in
pieces." Ps.2:9
115.God will rain fire and brimstone upon "wicked" people. Ps.11:6
116.The God of Peace teaches us to kill our neighbors in war.
Ps.18:34
117.If God doesn't like you, he'll burn you to death. Ps.21:9
118.If you forget God he will tear you in pieces. PS.50:22
119.If you don't trust God, he'll kill you, and while you're dying
the "righteous" will laugh at you.
Ps.52:5-6
120."Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth, ... let them be cut
pieces." Ps.58:6-8
121."The righteous" will rejoice when they see "the wicked" being
dismembered by God. They'll "wash
their feet in the blood of the wicked." Ps.58:10
122.God will "wound the head of his enemies" and the righteous will
dip their feet in their blood.
Ps.68:21, 23
123.God will "fill the places with dead bodies." Ps.110:6
124.God is praised for slaughtering little babies. Ps.135:8, 136:10
125.Happiness is smashing your little children against rocks.
Ps.137:9
126.A prayer that God will burn people to death. Ps.140:10
127.The God of Peace teaches us to kill each other in war. Ps.144:1
128.Beat the hell out of your children. Pr.13:24, 19:18, 22:15,
23:13-14, 29:15
129."The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil; so do stripes the
inward parts of the belly." Pr.20:30
130.Beat your slaves just like you do your children. Don't try to
correct them with words. Pr.29:19
131.If you mock your father or disobey your mother, the ravens will
pick out your eyeballs and feed
them to the eagles. Pr.30:17
132. If you associate or gird yourself God will break you in pieces.
Is.8:9
133. God will make every man kill his brother and then force him to
eat "the flesh of his own arm."
Is.9:19-20
134.If God can find you, he will "thrust you through," smash your
children "to pieces" before your
eyes, and rape your wife. Is.13:15-18
135."There stink shall come up out of their carcasses, and the
mountains shall be melted with their
blood." Is.34:2-3
136.God's sword is "filled with blood." He plans to kill so many
people that the "land will be soaked with
blood." Is.34:5-8
137.God will make people "eat their own flesh" and be "drunken with
their own blood." Is.49:26
138.God's clothes will get stained with the blood of humans.
Is.63:3-6
139.God will "plead with all flesh" with his fire and sword. "And the
slain of the Lord shall be many."
Is.66:16
140.The carcasses of those killed by God will be piled high. They
will rot and burn forever. Is.66:24
141.God says he "will send serpents, cockatrices, among you, which
will not be charmed, and they
shall bite you." Jer.8:17
142.God will kill the young men in war and starve their children to
death. Jer.11:22-23
143.God's sword will "devour" everyone until "no flesh shall have
peace." Jer.12:12
144. God will make everyone drunk and then "dash the fathers and the
sons together." He vows to "not
pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them." Jer.13:13-14
145.God promises to kill everyone by war, starvation, and disease.
Jer.14:12,24:10, 29:17-18, 42:17-18,
22
146.God will destroy by famine and sword those who are misled by the
prophets. Jer.14:16
147.God plans to kill people with swords, tear their flesh with dogs,
and feed their bodies to the birds
and beasts. Why? Because of something some former king did.
Jer.15:2-4
148. God has ordained that everyone "shall die of grievous deaths,"
and that they shall neither "be
lamented" nor even buried, but "they shall be as dung upon the
face of the earth." Jer.16:3-4
149.When the people ask why God is killing everyone, God answers by
saying, "Because your fathers
have forsaken me." Jer.16:10
150.Jeremiah asks God to kill the young men in war and the children
by starvation. Jer.18:21
151.God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat
each other. Jer.19:7-9
152.God will kill everyone, "both man and beast," with a "great
pestilence." Jer.21:6
153.God will force all of Israel to "be drunken." Then, he'll kill
them all with a sword. Jer.24:27-28
154.God will kill so many people that the entire earth will be
covered with their dead bodies. No one is
to mourn them or even bury them, "they shall be as dung upon the
ground." Jer.25:33
155.Even those Jews that flee to Egypt will not be spared. God will
hunt them down and kill them all
with war, famine, and disease. Jer.44:12-13
156.On the day of the Lord, God's sword will become drunk with blood.
Jer.46:10
157."Cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood." Jer.48:10
158.God will cause the daughters of Rabbah to be burned to death.
Jer.49:2
159.God will "break in pieces" pretty much everyone and everything he
can think of.. Jer.51:21-23
160.If a good person does something wrong after God "lays a stumbling
block before him," then God
will kill him. "He shall die in his sin" and whatever good he has
done will be forgotten. Ezek.3:20
161.God will cause fathers to eat their sons and sons to eat their
fathers. Ezek.5:10
162.God plans to kill everyone with plagues, famines, and wars. But
if any still survive, then he'll send
beasts to devour them. Ezek.5:17
163.God plans to decorate the land with human bones and dead bodies.
Ezek.6:5
164. God marks the foreheads of the men who will be saved. To God
only men are worth keeping. All
of the women and unmarked men are to be slaughtered. God will
"fill the courts with the slain" and
will have pity on no one. Ezek.9:4
165.God deceives some of his prophets and then kills them for
believing his lies. Ezek.14:9
166.God gets all excited about cooking human flesh and "scum."
Ezek.24:3-10
167.God kills Ezekiel's wife and tells him not to mourn her.
Ezek.24:15-18
168.God will cause every man's sword to be against his brother. By
doing so he will magnify and
sanctify himself and let everyone know that he's the Lord.
Ezek.38:21-23
169.God is preparing a feast for the birds and beasts. He's going to
have them eat human flesh until
they're full and drink human blood until they're drunk.
Ezek.39:4, 17-20
170. Nebuchadnezzar decrees that anyone who says anything against the
Hebrew god "shall be cut in
pieces, and their houses shall become a dunghill." Dan.3:29
171.Nebuchadnezzar orders those who accused Daniel (including their
wives and children) to be cast
into the lions den. Dan.6:24
172.God assures Hosea that he will "slay even the beloved fruit of
the womb." Hos.9:16
173.God will rip humans apart and eat them like a lion. Hos.13:7-8
174.God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and "their
women with child shall be ripped
up." Hos.13:16
175.God will "sell your sons and your daughters." Jl.3:8
176.God says to "prepare for war" by beating "your plowshares into
swords, and your pruning hooks
into spears." Jl.3:10
177. The divine pyromaniac sets fire to Hazel, Gaza, Teman, Rabbah,
and Moab. Am.1:4 - 2:2
178.God will "slay all the princes" of Moab. Am.2:3
179.God sends the pestilence, kills young men with the sword, and
makes the "stink of your camps to
come up unto your nostrils." Am.4:10
180.God will kill "the last of them with the sword," and any that try
to escape by diving to the bottom
of the sea will be bitten, at God's command, by a serpent. God
will set his "eyes upon them for evil,
not for good." Am.9:1-4
181.Plucking off skin, flesh from bones, eating human flesh, flaying
off skin, breaking bones, chopping
bodies in pieces, making human stew. Mic.3:2
182.God says that "the fire shall devour thee, the sword shall cut
thee off, it shall eat thee up like the
cankerworm." Nah.3:15
183."Before him [God] went the pestilence, and burning coals at his
feet." Hab.3:5
184.God plans to kill every living thing. Zeph.1:2
185.God will "bring distress upon men" so that they "walk like blind
men." He will pour out their blood
like dust and "their flesh as dung." Zeph.1:17
186.God will kill the Ethiopians with his own sword. Zeph.2:12
187.God brags about destroying a city and killing all of its
inhabitants.Zeph.3:6
188."All of the earth shall be devoured with the fire" of God's
jealousy. Zeph.3:8
189.God will make the horses and their riders be killed by "the sword
of his brother." Hag.2:22
190.God will "set all men one against his neighbor." Zech.8:10
191.God will mercilessly "feed the flock of slaughter" by making
every one kill his neighbor.
Zech.11:6-7
192.God wants everyone to eat "the flesh of another." Zech.11:9
193.God will open his eyes and smite "every rider with madness ...
and every horse ... with blindness."
Zech.12:4
194.A prophet must be killed by his own parents by "thrusting him
through when he prophesieth."
Zech.13:3
195.God will smite the people with plagues that will cause their
flesh, eyes, and tongues to rot away.
Zech.14:12
196.God will make everyone fight and kill his neighbor. Zech.14:13
197.God sends his plagues on animals too. Zech.14:15
198.God will "smite the heathen" with a plague.Zech.14:18
199.God wants the good folks to "tread down the wicked." Mal.4:3
200.Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck
out our eyes. Mt.5:29, 18:8
201.Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't
the slightest objection to the
cruelties of the Old Testament. Mt.5:17
202.Jesus says that most people are going to hell. Mt.7:13-14
203.Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run
off a cliff and drown in the waters
below. Mt.8:32
204.Families will be torn apart because of Jesus. "Brother shall
deliver up the brother to death, and the
father the child: and the children shall rise up against their
parents, and cause them to be put to
death. Mt.10:21
205.Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the
eternal torment of hell because they
didn't care for his preaching. Mt.11:20-24
206. Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and
they "shall cast them into a furnace of
fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Mt.13:41-42,
50
207.Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands
before eating. He defends himself by
attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to
the commandment: "He that curseth
father or mother, let him die the death." Mt.15:4-7
208. Jesus sends the devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off
a cliff and be drowned in the sea.
Mk.5:12-13
209.Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be
destroyed in a manner even more
savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mk.6:11
210. Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient
children according to Old Testament law.
Mk.7:9
211. Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our
eyes to avoid going to hell. Mk.9:43
212.Jesus kills a fig tree for not bearing figs, even though it was
out of season. Mk.11:13
213.Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be
saved, while those who don't will be
damned. Mk.16:16
214.God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's
words. Lk.1:20
215.John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire
unquenchable." Lk.3:17
216.Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the
inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for
not "receiving" his disciples. Lk.10:10-15
217. Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to
kill us and then torture us forever in
hell. Lk.12:5
218.All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever.
Lk.16:17
219."Bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by Jesus]
hither, and slay them before me."
Lk.19:22-27
220.Those who, for whatever reason, do not believe in Jesus are
tormented forever in hell. Jn.3:18
221.Jesus says that the wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. Jn.3:36
222.Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be
burned. Jn.15:6
223.God will torture forever those who don't know the password to
heaven. Acts 4:12
224.Peter and God scare Ananias and his wife to death for not forking
over all of the money that they
made when selling their land. Acts 5:1-10
225.The "angel of the Lord" killed Herod by having him "eaten of
worms" because "he gave not God the
glory." Acts 12:23
226.Paul and the Holy Ghost conspire together to make Elymas (the
sorcerer) blind. Acts 13:8-11
227."The wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. Rom.1:18-20
228."He that doubteth is damned ... Whosoever is not of faith is
sin." Rom.14:23
229.Those who disagree with Paul's religious views are damned.
Gal.1:8-9
230.Jesus will take "vengeance on them that know not God" by burning
them forever "in flaming fire."
2 Th.1:7-9
231.Jesus will "consume" the wicked "with the spirit of his mouth." 2
Th.2:8
232.God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn our souls
to hell. 2 Th.2:11-12
233.God makes people evil and then condemns them to hell. Jude 4
234.Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don't believe in him.
Jude 5
235.God gave power to someone sitting on a red horse "to take from
the earth ... that they should kill
one another." Rev.6:4
236.God makes some horse-like locusts with human heads, women's hair,
lion's teeth, and scorpion's
tails. They sting people and hurt them for five months.
Rev.9:7-10
237.Four angels, with an army of 200 million, killed a third of the
earth's population. Rev.9:15-19
238.God will have people killed by fire, plagues, and beasts. There
will be dead bodies rotting, unburied
everywhere. And those that are not killed by God (the
Christians?) will "rejoice over them [the dead
nonchristians?] and make merry, and shall send gifts to one
another." Rev.11:5-10
239.God will send an earthquake that will kill 7000 people. Rev.11:13

240.Those who receive the mark of the beast will "drink of the wine
of the wrath of God ... and shall
be tormented with fire and brimstone ... and the smoke of their
torment ascendeth up for ever and
ever." Rev.14:10-11
241."The great winepress of the wrath of God ... was trodden ... and
the blood cam out of the
winepress, even unto the horses bridles." Rev.14:19
242. The seven vials of wrath: 1) sores, 2) sea turned to blood, 3)
rivers turned to blood, 4) people
scorched with fire, 5) people gnaw their tongues in pain, 6)
Euphrates dries up, 7) thunder,
lightening, earthquake, and hail. Rev.16:1-21
243.The great harlot is described as being "full of abominations and
filthiness of her fornication." She
has a rather large and prominent sign on her forehead, will be
made "desolate and naked," and her
flesh will be eaten and burned with fire. Rev.17:1-16
244. Jesus, whose clothes are dipped in blood, has a sharp sword
sticking out of his mouth. Thus
attired, he treads the winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev.19:13-15
245. An angel calls all the fowls to feast upon dead human bodies, or
as the angel calls it "the supper of
the great God." Rev.19:17-18
246.The beast and the false prophet are cast alive into a lake of
fire. The rest were killed with the sword
of Jesus. "An all the fowls were filled with their flesh."
Rev.19:20-21
247.God will send fire from heaven to devour people. Rev.20:9-10
248.Whoever isn't found listed in the book of life will be cast into
the lake of fire. Rev.20:15
249.Those who are fearful or unbelieving will be cast into "the lake
which burneth with fire and
brimstone." Rev.21:8

[Al Klein]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:34:44 -0600, GaryE

Post by GaryE
Doesn`t this give you a warm fuzzy feeling?
1.God, the mass murderer. Gen.7:4, 19:24
2.God tells Abraham to kill his second son for a burnt offering
Gen.22:2, 10

<snipped 500+ lines of bible crap>

Claim you didn't know that it's a violation of the FAQ to post
unsolicited bible quotes in alt.atheism.

[Liberalsareliars]

Al Klein wrote:
|| On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:34:44 -0600, GaryE
|| <***@nadaswbell.net> said in alt.atheism:
||
||| Doesn`t this give you a warm fuzzy feeling?
||
||| 1.God, the mass murderer. Gen.7:4, 19:24
||| 2.God tells Abraham to kill his second son for a burnt offering
||| Gen.22:2, 10
||
|| <snipped 500+ lines of bible crap>
||
|| Claim you didn't know that it's a violation of the FAQ to post
|| unsolicited bible quotes in alt.atheism.

Yo' mama!!


|| --
|| "To assume the existence of an unperceivable being ... does not
|| facilitate understanding the orderliness we find in the perceivable
|| world." - Letter to an Iowa student who asked, What is God? July,
|| 1953; Einstein Archive 59-085 (random sig, produced by SigChanger)
|| rukbat at verizon dot net

[Al Klein]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:27:33 -0600, GaryE

Post by GaryE
It's really irrelevant to me.

It's relevant to your claim.

Post by GaryE
There are no original manuscripts of Homer's Illiad either.

There never were, so the analogy fails.

[GaryE]

Post by William
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:27:33 -0600, GaryE

Post by GaryE
It's really irrelevant to me.

It's relevant to your claim.

What claim? I said it could be or it couldn't be. Which one do youu
refer to?

Post by William

Post by GaryE
There are no original manuscripts of Homer's Illiad either.

There never were, so the analogy fails.

Fails your reasoning but that's no big deal.

Garbaby

[Al Klein]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:38:11 -0600, GaryE

Post by GaryE

Post by William
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:27:33 -0600, GaryE

Post by GaryE
It's really irrelevant to me.

It's relevant to your claim.

What claim? I said it could be or it couldn't be. Which one do youu
refer to?

Something you snipped. Thanks for that.

Post by GaryE

Post by William

Post by GaryE
There are no original manuscripts of Homer's Illiad either.

There never were, so the analogy fails.

Fails your reasoning

My reasoning didn't include Homer - that was yours.

[Tommy]

In news:Pine.A41.4.05.
Lech K. Lesiak <> was heard piping ``(*^(\)

Post by Lech K. Lesiak
As I've said on many occasions when talking with bible pounders, the
Mormons have better written evidence for their beliefs than christians,
and who believes the Mormons.
Personally I don't find golden tablets brought by angels any more
outrageous than rising from the dead and ascending to heaven.
Cheers,
Lech

Whaddya think of Virgin Births.
Although, it would leave them prolifers with a big hole in their dogma.
Heh heh imagine telling a pregnat virgin to get rid of it :-))
Cheers
Tommy

[Tim and Lisa]

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities? Looking at the universe only two
conclusions can be drawn about God in regards to us (assuming if it
1. God doesn't give much of a shit about humanity so there's no point
in giving much of a crap about it.
or
2. The Judeo-Christian God of the Bible is the worst criminal to ever

And the good news is ...You get to pick a God of your own understanding.
There's something to be grateful for! ;o)

[GaryE]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:29:22 GMT, "Tim and Lisa"

Post by Tim and Lisa

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities? Looking at the universe only two
conclusions can be drawn about God in regards to us (assuming if it
1. God doesn't give much of a shit about humanity so there's no point
in giving much of a crap about it.
or
2. The Judeo-Christian God of the Bible is the worst criminal to ever

And the good news is ...You get to pick a God of your own understanding.
There's something to be grateful for! ;o)

That's not it Timmy. You get to have your own understanding of the
God that is...you aren't missing all those references to the Bible God
are you? They are all over the place.

[Tim and Lisa]

Post by GaryE
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:29:22 GMT, "Tim and Lisa"

Post by Tim and Lisa

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities? Looking at the universe only two
conclusions can be drawn about God in regards to us (assuming if it
1. God doesn't give much of a shit about humanity so there's no point
in giving much of a crap about it.
or
2. The Judeo-Christian God of the Bible is the worst criminal to ever

And the good news is ...You get to pick a God of your own understanding.
There's something to be grateful for! ;o)

That's not it Timmy. You get to have your own understanding of the
God that is...you aren't missing all those references to the Bible God
are you? They are all over the place.

Oops, my bad. Thirty lashes with a wet noodle!

[Al Klein]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:23:30 -0600, GaryE

Post by GaryE
That's not it Timmy. You get to have your own understanding of the
God that is.

Which of the thousands of gods would that be, and what's the objective
evidence to back up whatever claim you make?

Post by GaryE
..you aren't missing all those references to the Bible God
are you? They are all over the place.

That's one candidate. You aren't missing all those references to all
those other gods, are you? they're all over the place.

[Claytibardfarst]

"Is God the Worst Criminal to ever exist?"

Ok...who can spot the problem with that sentence?

[Kirk Chalmers]

It seems you think much too highly of man.

We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath. It is only by His
lovng and incomprehensible mercy that you or I are allowed to take that next
breath. God has offered redemption for man through the sacrifice of Jesus
Christ. You may not understand that, but how can any man understand the
mind of God?!

God says that He will confound the minds of the wise with simple truths.

Open your mind, allow God to talk to your inner spirit. He will if you
approach him with sincerity. You obviously are an intelligent person as
evidenced by your writing. God has more for you. He offers you salvation.
Not some formal, ceremonial thing, but personal salvation. I have been
unsaved, and I have doubted.
God has converted me. The inner peace is something beyond words, beyond
human reasoning. The destiny of my soul is assured. Is yours?

May Almighty God touch you with His perfect love ...

Kirk

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities? Looking at the universe only two
conclusions can be drawn about God in regards to us (assuming if it
1. God doesn't give much of a shit about humanity so there's no point
in giving much of a crap about it.
or
2. The Judeo-Christian God of the Bible is the worst criminal to ever
How else can you explain the fact that he supported genocide of the
Midianites and having the 32000 surviving virgins (who were obviously
grieving the loss of their families and were violated by having their
vaginas inspected to see if the hymen was intact against their will)
sold into sex slavery? Is that moral?
[quote]
http://www.bible.org/netbible2/index.php?header=&book=num&chapter=31
The Midianite War
31:11 The Lord spoke to Moses: 31:2 "Exact vengeance2 for the
Israelites on the Midianites3--after that you will be gathered to your
people."4
31:3 So Moses spoke to the people: "Arm5 men from among you for the
war, to go against the Midianites and to execute6 the vengeance of the
Lord on Midian. 31:4 You must send to the battle a thousand men from
every tribe throughout all the tribes of Israel."7 31:5 So a thousand
from every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war in all, were provided
out of the thousands of Israel.
Campaign Against the Midianites
31:6 So Moses sent them to the war, one thousand from every tribe, with
Phinehas son of Eleazar the priest, who was in charge8 of the holy
articles9 and the signal trumpets in his hand. 31:7 They fought against
the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed every
male.10 31:8 They killed the kings of Midian in addition to those
slain--Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba--five Midianite kings.11 They
also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.12
31:9 The Israelites took the women of Midian captives along with their
little ones, and took all their herds, all their flocks, and all their
goods as plunder. 31:10 They burned13 all their towns14 that they had
inhabited and all their encampments. 31:11 They took all the plunder
and all the spoils, both people and animals. 31:12 They brought the
captives and the spoils and the plunder to Moses, to Eleazar the
priest, and to the Israelite community, to the camp on the steppes of
Moab, along the Jordan River15 across from Jericho.16 31:13 Moses,
Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the community went out to
meet them outside the camp.
The Death of the Midianite Women
31:14 But Moses was furious with the officers of the army, the
commanders over thousands and commanders over hundreds, who had come
from service in the war. 31:15 Moses said to them, "Have you allowed
all the women to live?17 31:16 Look, these people through the counsel
of Balaam caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the Lord
in the matter of Peor--and there was the plague among the community of
the Lord. 31:17 Now therefore kill every boy,18 and kill every woman
who has had sexual intercourse with a man.19 31:18 But all the young
women20 who have not had sexual intercourse with a man21 will be
yours.22
Purification After Battle
31:19 "Any of you who has killed anyone or touched any of the dead,
remain outside the camp for seven days; purify yourselves and your
captives on the third day, and on the seventh day. 31:20 You must
purify each garment and everything that is made of skin, everything
made of goat's hair, and everything made of wood."23
31:21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the men of war who had gone into
the battle, "This is the ordinance of the law that the Lord commanded
Moses: 31:22 'Only the gold, the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin,
and the lead, 31:23 everything that may stand the fire, you are to pass
through the fire,24 and it will be clean, but then it must be purified
with the waters of impurity. Anything that cannot withstand the fire
you must pass through the water. 31:24 You must wash your clothes on
the seventh day, and you will be clean, and afterward you may come into
the camp.'"
The Distribution of Spoils
31:25 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 31:26 "You and Eleazar the priest,
and all the family heads of the community, take the sum25 of the
plunder that was captured, both people and animals. 31:27 Divide the
plunder into two parts, one for those who took part in the war, who
went out to battle, and the other for all the community.
31:28 "You must exact26 a tribute for the Lord from the men of war who
went out to battle: one life out of five hundred, from the people, the
cattle, and from the donkeys and the sheep. 31:29 You are to take it
from their half-share and give it to Eleazar the priest for a raised
offering to the Lord. 31:30 From the Israelites' half-share you are to
take one portion out of fifty of the people, the cattle, the donkeys,
and the sheep--from every kind of animal--and you are to give them to
the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the tabernacle of the
Lord."
31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:32 The spoil that remained of the plunder which the men27 of war had
gathered28 was 675,000 sheep, 31:33 72,000 cattle, 31:34 61,000
donkeys, 31:35 and 32,000 women who had never had sexual intercourse
with a man.29
31:36 The half-portion of those who went to war numbered 337,500 sheep;
31:37 the Lord's tribute from the sheep was 675. 31:38 The cattle
numbered30 36,000; the Lord's tribute was 72. 31:39 The donkeys were
30,500, of which the Lord's tribute was 61. 31:40 The people were
16,000, of which the Lord's tribute was 32 people.31
31:41 So Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord's raised offering,
to Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:42 From the Israelites' half-share that Moses had separated from the
warriors,32 31:43 there were 337,500 sheep from the portion belonging
to the community, 31:44 36,000 cattle, 31:45 30,500 donkeys, 31:46 and
16,000 people.
31:47 From the Israelites' share Moses took one of every fifty people
and animals and gave them to the Levites who were responsible for the
care of the tabernacle of the Lord, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:48 Then the officers who were over the thousands of the army, the
commanders over thousands and the commanders over hundreds, approached
Moses 31:49 and said to him,33 "Your servants have taken a count34 of
the men who were in the battle, who were under our authority,35 and not
one is missing. 31:50 So we have brought for an offering for the Lord
what each man found: gold ornaments, armlets, bracelets, signet rings,
earrings, and necklaces, to make atonement for ourselves36 before the
Lord."37 31:51 Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold from them,
all of it fashioned into ornaments. 31:52 All the gold of the offering
they had offered up to the Lord from the commanders of thousands and
the commanders of hundreds weighed 16,750 shekels.38 31:53 Each soldier
had taken plunder for himself. 31:54 So Moses and Eleazar the priest
received the gold from the commanders of thousands and commanders39 of
hundreds and brought it into the tent of meeting as a memorial40 for
the Israelites before the Lord.
[end quote]
Yeah, Twain mentions it in his Letters From the Earth but it's such a
great story to destroy such pompous ideas that the Bible is a book of
"high morals." How can *any* Christian square this story away with
being the same "loving" God that's supposed to be Jesus? Most *smart*
people would have excised such garbage as bad public relations for a
supposed all loving deity.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/bill_schultz/criminal-god.html

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:11:09 GMT, "Kirk Chalmers"

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.
We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath. It is only by His

Fuck off and die, you in-your-face nasty jerk.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
lovng and incomprehensible mercy that you or I are allowed to take that next
breath. God has offered redemption for man through the sacrifice of Jesus

Prove it. Put up or shut up, moron.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Christ. You may not understand that, but how can any man understand the
mind of God?!

Keep your stupid , off-topic and personally nasty preaching off the
atheist newsgroups, asshole.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
God says that He will confound the minds of the wise with simple truths.

Prove it exists outside your deluded imagination in order to do
anything, moron.

And stop dishonestly redeininig "truth" to mean "what your religion
says".

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Open your mind, allow God to talk to your inner spirit. He will if you

Don't be so stupid.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
approach him with sincerity. You obviously are an intelligent person as
evidenced by your writing. God has more for you. He offers you salvation.

Figments of your deluded imaginatuion can't have anything.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Not some formal, ceremonial thing, but personal salvation. I have been
unsaved, and I have doubted.
God has converted me. The inner peace is something beyond words, beyond
human reasoning. The destiny of my soul is assured. Is yours?

What a remarkably stupid question to ask on an atheist newsgroup.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
May Almighty God touch you with His perfect love ...

If Satan and Hell really exist may you be consigned there for
eternity.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Kirk

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities? Looking at the universe only two
conclusions can be drawn about God in regards to us (assuming if it
1. God doesn't give much of a shit about humanity so there's no point
in giving much of a crap about it.
or
2. The Judeo-Christian God of the Bible is the worst criminal to ever
How else can you explain the fact that he supported genocide of the
Midianites and having the 32000 surviving virgins (who were obviously
grieving the loss of their families and were violated by having their
vaginas inspected to see if the hymen was intact against their will)
sold into sex slavery? Is that moral?
[quote]
http://www.bible.org/netbible2/index.php?header=&book=num&chapter=31
The Midianite War
31:11 The Lord spoke to Moses: 31:2 "Exact vengeance2 for the
Israelites on the Midianites3--after that you will be gathered to your
people."4
31:3 So Moses spoke to the people: "Arm5 men from among you for the
war, to go against the Midianites and to execute6 the vengeance of the
Lord on Midian. 31:4 You must send to the battle a thousand men from
every tribe throughout all the tribes of Israel."7 31:5 So a thousand
from every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war in all, were provided
out of the thousands of Israel.
Campaign Against the Midianites
31:6 So Moses sent them to the war, one thousand from every tribe, with
Phinehas son of Eleazar the priest, who was in charge8 of the holy
articles9 and the signal trumpets in his hand. 31:7 They fought against
the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed every
male.10 31:8 They killed the kings of Midian in addition to those
slain--Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba--five Midianite kings.11 They
also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.12
31:9 The Israelites took the women of Midian captives along with their
little ones, and took all their herds, all their flocks, and all their
goods as plunder. 31:10 They burned13 all their towns14 that they had
inhabited and all their encampments. 31:11 They took all the plunder
and all the spoils, both people and animals. 31:12 They brought the
captives and the spoils and the plunder to Moses, to Eleazar the
priest, and to the Israelite community, to the camp on the steppes of
Moab, along the Jordan River15 across from Jericho.16 31:13 Moses,
Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the community went out to
meet them outside the camp.
The Death of the Midianite Women
31:14 But Moses was furious with the officers of the army, the
commanders over thousands and commanders over hundreds, who had come
from service in the war. 31:15 Moses said to them, "Have you allowed
all the women to live?17 31:16 Look, these people through the counsel
of Balaam caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the Lord
in the matter of Peor--and there was the plague among the community of
the Lord. 31:17 Now therefore kill every boy,18 and kill every woman
who has had sexual intercourse with a man.19 31:18 But all the young
women20 who have not had sexual intercourse with a man21 will be
yours.22
Purification After Battle
31:19 "Any of you who has killed anyone or touched any of the dead,
remain outside the camp for seven days; purify yourselves and your
captives on the third day, and on the seventh day. 31:20 You must
purify each garment and everything that is made of skin, everything
made of goat's hair, and everything made of wood."23
31:21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the men of war who had gone into
the battle, "This is the ordinance of the law that the Lord commanded
Moses: 31:22 'Only the gold, the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin,
and the lead, 31:23 everything that may stand the fire, you are to pass
through the fire,24 and it will be clean, but then it must be purified
with the waters of impurity. Anything that cannot withstand the fire
you must pass through the water. 31:24 You must wash your clothes on
the seventh day, and you will be clean, and afterward you may come into
the camp.'"
The Distribution of Spoils
31:25 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 31:26 "You and Eleazar the priest,
and all the family heads of the community, take the sum25 of the
plunder that was captured, both people and animals. 31:27 Divide the
plunder into two parts, one for those who took part in the war, who
went out to battle, and the other for all the community.
31:28 "You must exact26 a tribute for the Lord from the men of war who
went out to battle: one life out of five hundred, from the people, the
cattle, and from the donkeys and the sheep. 31:29 You are to take it
from their half-share and give it to Eleazar the priest for a raised
offering to the Lord. 31:30 From the Israelites' half-share you are to
take one portion out of fifty of the people, the cattle, the donkeys,
and the sheep--from every kind of animal--and you are to give them to
the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the tabernacle of the
Lord."
31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:32 The spoil that remained of the plunder which the men27 of war had
gathered28 was 675,000 sheep, 31:33 72,000 cattle, 31:34 61,000
donkeys, 31:35 and 32,000 women who had never had sexual intercourse
with a man.29
31:36 The half-portion of those who went to war numbered 337,500 sheep;
31:37 the Lord's tribute from the sheep was 675. 31:38 The cattle
numbered30 36,000; the Lord's tribute was 72. 31:39 The donkeys were
30,500, of which the Lord's tribute was 61. 31:40 The people were
16,000, of which the Lord's tribute was 32 people.31
31:41 So Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord's raised offering,
to Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:42 From the Israelites' half-share that Moses had separated from the
warriors,32 31:43 there were 337,500 sheep from the portion belonging
to the community, 31:44 36,000 cattle, 31:45 30,500 donkeys, 31:46 and
16,000 people.
31:47 From the Israelites' share Moses took one of every fifty people
and animals and gave them to the Levites who were responsible for the
care of the tabernacle of the Lord, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:48 Then the officers who were over the thousands of the army, the
commanders over thousands and the commanders over hundreds, approached
Moses 31:49 and said to him,33 "Your servants have taken a count34 of
the men who were in the battle, who were under our authority,35 and not
one is missing. 31:50 So we have brought for an offering for the Lord
what each man found: gold ornaments, armlets, bracelets, signet rings,
earrings, and necklaces, to make atonement for ourselves36 before the
Lord."37 31:51 Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold from them,
all of it fashioned into ornaments. 31:52 All the gold of the offering
they had offered up to the Lord from the commanders of thousands and
the commanders of hundreds weighed 16,750 shekels.38 31:53 Each soldier
had taken plunder for himself. 31:54 So Moses and Eleazar the priest
received the gold from the commanders of thousands and commanders39 of
hundreds and brought it into the tent of meeting as a memorial40 for
the Israelites before the Lord.
[end quote]
Yeah, Twain mentions it in his Letters From the Earth but it's such a
great story to destroy such pompous ideas that the Bible is a book of
"high morals." How can *any* Christian square this story away with
being the same "loving" God that's supposed to be Jesus? Most *smart*
people would have excised such garbage as bad public relations for a
supposed all loving deity.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/bill_schultz/criminal-god.html

[Kirk Chalmers]

Check the To line above the subject header. I subscribe to
alt.religion.christianity. I responded to a post that contained alt.atheism
in the list, and that is how it ended up in front of your eyes.

I would never attempt to antagonise anyone on purpose.

Your hostile reaction was unecessary.

Kirk

Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:11:09 GMT, "Kirk Chalmers"

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.
We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath. It is only by His

Fuck off and die, you in-your-face nasty jerk.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
lovng and incomprehensible mercy that you or I are allowed to take that next
breath. God has offered redemption for man through the sacrifice of Jesus

Prove it. Put up or shut up, moron.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Christ. You may not understand that, but how can any man understand the
mind of God?!

Keep your stupid , off-topic and personally nasty preaching off the
atheist newsgroups, asshole.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
God says that He will confound the minds of the wise with simple truths.

Prove it exists outside your deluded imagination in order to do
anything, moron.
And stop dishonestly redeininig "truth" to mean "what your religion
says".

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Open your mind, allow God to talk to your inner spirit. He will if you

Don't be so stupid.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
approach him with sincerity. You obviously are an intelligent person as
evidenced by your writing. God has more for you. He offers you salvation.

Figments of your deluded imaginatuion can't have anything.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Not some formal, ceremonial thing, but personal salvation. I have been
unsaved, and I have doubted.
God has converted me. The inner peace is something beyond words, beyond
human reasoning. The destiny of my soul is assured. Is yours?

What a remarkably stupid question to ask on an atheist newsgroup.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
May Almighty God touch you with His perfect love ...

If Satan and Hell really exist may you be consigned there for
eternity.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Kirk

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities? Looking at the universe only two
conclusions can be drawn about God in regards to us (assuming if it
1. God doesn't give much of a shit about humanity so there's no point
in giving much of a crap about it.
or
2. The Judeo-Christian God of the Bible is the worst criminal to ever
How else can you explain the fact that he supported genocide of the
Midianites and having the 32000 surviving virgins (who were obviously
grieving the loss of their families and were violated by having their
vaginas inspected to see if the hymen was intact against their will)
sold into sex slavery? Is that moral?
[quote]
http://www.bible.org/netbible2/index.php?header=&book=num&chapter=31
The Midianite War
31:11 The Lord spoke to Moses: 31:2 "Exact vengeance2 for the
Israelites on the Midianites3--after that you will be gathered to your
people."4
31:3 So Moses spoke to the people: "Arm5 men from among you for the
war, to go against the Midianites and to execute6 the vengeance of the
Lord on Midian. 31:4 You must send to the battle a thousand men from
every tribe throughout all the tribes of Israel."7 31:5 So a thousand
from every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war in all, were provided
out of the thousands of Israel.
Campaign Against the Midianites
31:6 So Moses sent them to the war, one thousand from every tribe, with
Phinehas son of Eleazar the priest, who was in charge8 of the holy
articles9 and the signal trumpets in his hand. 31:7 They fought against
the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed every
male.10 31:8 They killed the kings of Midian in addition to those
slain--Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba--five Midianite kings.11 They
also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.12
31:9 The Israelites took the women of Midian captives along with their
little ones, and took all their herds, all their flocks, and all their
goods as plunder. 31:10 They burned13 all their towns14 that they had
inhabited and all their encampments. 31:11 They took all the plunder
and all the spoils, both people and animals. 31:12 They brought the
captives and the spoils and the plunder to Moses, to Eleazar the
priest, and to the Israelite community, to the camp on the steppes of
Moab, along the Jordan River15 across from Jericho.16 31:13 Moses,
Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the community went out to
meet them outside the camp.
The Death of the Midianite Women
31:14 But Moses was furious with the officers of the army, the
commanders over thousands and commanders over hundreds, who had come
from service in the war. 31:15 Moses said to them, "Have you allowed
all the women to live?17 31:16 Look, these people through the counsel
of Balaam caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the Lord
in the matter of Peor--and there was the plague among the community of
the Lord. 31:17 Now therefore kill every boy,18 and kill every woman
who has had sexual intercourse with a man.19 31:18 But all the young
women20 who have not had sexual intercourse with a man21 will be
yours.22
Purification After Battle
31:19 "Any of you who has killed anyone or touched any of the dead,
remain outside the camp for seven days; purify yourselves and your
captives on the third day, and on the seventh day. 31:20 You must
purify each garment and everything that is made of skin, everything
made of goat's hair, and everything made of wood."23
31:21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the men of war who had gone into
the battle, "This is the ordinance of the law that the Lord commanded
Moses: 31:22 'Only the gold, the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin,
and the lead, 31:23 everything that may stand the fire, you are to pass
through the fire,24 and it will be clean, but then it must be purified
with the waters of impurity. Anything that cannot withstand the fire
you must pass through the water. 31:24 You must wash your clothes on
the seventh day, and you will be clean, and afterward you may come into
the camp.'"
The Distribution of Spoils
31:25 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 31:26 "You and Eleazar the priest,
and all the family heads of the community, take the sum25 of the
plunder that was captured, both people and animals. 31:27 Divide the
plunder into two parts, one for those who took part in the war, who
went out to battle, and the other for all the community.
31:28 "You must exact26 a tribute for the Lord from the men of war who
went out to battle: one life out of five hundred, from the people, the
cattle, and from the donkeys and the sheep. 31:29 You are to take it
from their half-share and give it to Eleazar the priest for a raised
offering to the Lord. 31:30 From the Israelites' half-share you are to
take one portion out of fifty of the people, the cattle, the donkeys,
and the sheep--from every kind of animal--and you are to give them to
the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the tabernacle of the
Lord."
31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:32 The spoil that remained of the plunder which the men27 of war had
gathered28 was 675,000 sheep, 31:33 72,000 cattle, 31:34 61,000
donkeys, 31:35 and 32,000 women who had never had sexual intercourse
with a man.29
31:36 The half-portion of those who went to war numbered 337,500 sheep;
31:37 the Lord's tribute from the sheep was 675. 31:38 The cattle
numbered30 36,000; the Lord's tribute was 72. 31:39 The donkeys were
30,500, of which the Lord's tribute was 61. 31:40 The people were
16,000, of which the Lord's tribute was 32 people.31
31:41 So Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord's raised offering,
to Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:42 From the Israelites' half-share that Moses had separated from the
warriors,32 31:43 there were 337,500 sheep from the portion belonging
to the community, 31:44 36,000 cattle, 31:45 30,500 donkeys, 31:46 and
16,000 people.
31:47 From the Israelites' share Moses took one of every fifty people
and animals and gave them to the Levites who were responsible for the
care of the tabernacle of the Lord, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:48 Then the officers who were over the thousands of the army, the
commanders over thousands and the commanders over hundreds, approached
Moses 31:49 and said to him,33 "Your servants have taken a count34 of
the men who were in the battle, who were under our authority,35 and not
one is missing. 31:50 So we have brought for an offering for the Lord
what each man found: gold ornaments, armlets, bracelets, signet rings,
earrings, and necklaces, to make atonement for ourselves36 before the
Lord."37 31:51 Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold from them,
all of it fashioned into ornaments. 31:52 All the gold of the offering
they had offered up to the Lord from the commanders of thousands and
the commanders of hundreds weighed 16,750 shekels.38 31:53 Each soldier
had taken plunder for himself. 31:54 So Moses and Eleazar the priest
received the gold from the commanders of thousands and commanders39 of
hundreds and brought it into the tent of meeting as a memorial40 for
the Israelites before the Lord.
[end quote]
Yeah, Twain mentions it in his Letters From the Earth but it's such a
great story to destroy such pompous ideas that the Bible is a book of
"high morals." How can *any* Christian square this story away with
being the same "loving" God that's supposed to be Jesus? Most *smart*
people would have excised such garbage as bad public relations for a
supposed all loving deity.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/bill_schultz/criminal-god.html

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:00:46 GMT, "Kirk Chalmers"

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Check the To line above the subject header. I subscribe to
alt.religion.christianity. I responded to a post that contained alt.atheism
in the list, and that is how it ended up in front of your eyes.
I would never attempt to antagonise anyone on purpose.
Your hostile reaction was unecessary.

Your post was both stupid and rude.

You should have checked your headers.

[Al Klein]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:00:46 GMT, "Kirk Chalmers"

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Check the To line above the subject header.

This isn't email, it's usenet. Get a real newsreader. The header is

Post by Kirk Chalmers
I subscribe to alt.religion.christianity.

And you posted this bullshit to alt.atheism, alt.religion.christian,
alt.recovery.aa, alt.christnet and alt.deism. YOU are SOLELY
responsible for which groups you post to.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
I responded to a post that contained alt.atheism
in the list, and that is how it ended up in front of your eyes.

Knowing that preaching is forbidden in alt.atheism. (If you haven't
read the FAQ you shouldn't be posting to the news group, so "I didn't
know" isn't an excuse.)

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Your hostile reaction was unecessary.

You misspelled "My".

Oh, and learn what "trim your posts" means.

[Rump Ranger]

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Check the To line above the subject header. I subscribe to
alt.religion.christianity. I responded to a post that contained alt.atheism
in the list, and that is how it ended up in front of your eyes.
I would never attempt to antagonise anyone on purpose.

Nonsense. When you asked me whether I know the destiny of my soul your
implication was that if I don't immediately convert to your brand of
religion, I'm going to Hell for everlasting torment.

If that isn't antagonistic, then nothing is.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Your hostile reaction was unecessary.
Kirk

Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:11:09 GMT, "Kirk Chalmers"

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.
We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath. It is only by His

Fuck off and die, you in-your-face nasty jerk.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
lovng and incomprehensible mercy that you or I are allowed to take

that

Post by Kirk Chalmers
next

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by Kirk Chalmers
breath. God has offered redemption for man through the sacrifice

of

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Jesus

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Prove it. Put up or shut up, moron.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Christ. You may not understand that, but how can any man

understand the

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by Kirk Chalmers
mind of God?!

Keep your stupid , off-topic and personally nasty preaching off the
atheist newsgroups, asshole.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
God says that He will confound the minds of the wise with simple truths.

Prove it exists outside your deluded imagination in order to do
anything, moron.
And stop dishonestly redeininig "truth" to mean "what your religion
says".

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Open your mind, allow God to talk to your inner spirit. He will if you

Don't be so stupid.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
approach him with sincerity. You obviously are an intelligent person as
evidenced by your writing. God has more for you. He offers you

salvation.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Figments of your deluded imaginatuion can't have anything.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Not some formal, ceremonial thing, but personal salvation. I have been
unsaved, and I have doubted.
God has converted me. The inner peace is something beyond words, beyond
human reasoning. The destiny of my soul is assured. Is yours?

What a remarkably stupid question to ask on an atheist newsgroup.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
May Almighty God touch you with His perfect love ...

If Satan and Hell really exist may you be consigned there for
eternity.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Kirk

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities? Looking at the universe only two
conclusions can be drawn about God in regards to us (assuming if it
1. God doesn't give much of a shit about humanity so there's no point
in giving much of a crap about it.
or
2. The Judeo-Christian God of the Bible is the worst criminal to ever
How else can you explain the fact that he supported genocide of the
Midianites and having the 32000 surviving virgins (who were obviously
grieving the loss of their families and were violated by having their
vaginas inspected to see if the hymen was intact against their will)
sold into sex slavery? Is that moral?
[quote]

http://www.bible.org/netbible2/index.php?header=&book=num&chapter=31

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
The Midianite War
31:11 The Lord spoke to Moses: 31:2 "Exact vengeance2 for the
Israelites on the Midianites3--after that you will be gathered to your
people."4
31:3 So Moses spoke to the people: "Arm5 men from among you for the
war, to go against the Midianites and to execute6 the vengeance of the
Lord on Midian. 31:4 You must send to the battle a thousand men from
every tribe throughout all the tribes of Israel."7 31:5 So a thousand
from every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war in all, were provided
out of the thousands of Israel.
Campaign Against the Midianites
31:6 So Moses sent them to the war, one thousand from every tribe, with
Phinehas son of Eleazar the priest, who was in charge8 of the holy
articles9 and the signal trumpets in his hand. 31:7 They fought against
the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed every
male.10 31:8 They killed the kings of Midian in addition to those
slain--Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba--five Midianite kings.11 They
also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.12
31:9 The Israelites took the women of Midian captives along with their
little ones, and took all their herds, all their flocks, and all their
goods as plunder. 31:10 They burned13 all their towns14 that they had
inhabited and all their encampments. 31:11 They took all the plunder
and all the spoils, both people and animals. 31:12 They brought the
captives and the spoils and the plunder to Moses, to Eleazar the
priest, and to the Israelite community, to the camp on the steppes of
Moab, along the Jordan River15 across from Jericho.16 31:13 Moses,
Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the community went out to
meet them outside the camp.
The Death of the Midianite Women
31:14 But Moses was furious with the officers of the army, the
commanders over thousands and commanders over hundreds, who had come
from service in the war. 31:15 Moses said to them, "Have you allowed
all the women to live?17 31:16 Look, these people through the counsel
of Balaam caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the Lord
in the matter of Peor--and there was the plague among the

community of

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
the Lord. 31:17 Now therefore kill every boy,18 and kill every woman
who has had sexual intercourse with a man.19 31:18 But all the young
women20 who have not had sexual intercourse with a man21 will be
yours.22
Purification After Battle
31:19 "Any of you who has killed anyone or touched any of the dead,
remain outside the camp for seven days; purify yourselves and your
captives on the third day, and on the seventh day. 31:20 You must
purify each garment and everything that is made of skin,

everything

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
made of goat's hair, and everything made of wood."23
31:21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the men of war who had gone into
the battle, "This is the ordinance of the law that the Lord commanded
Moses: 31:22 'Only the gold, the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin,
and the lead, 31:23 everything that may stand the fire, you are to pass
through the fire,24 and it will be clean, but then it must be purified
with the waters of impurity. Anything that cannot withstand the fire
you must pass through the water. 31:24 You must wash your

clothes on

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
the seventh day, and you will be clean, and afterward you may come into
the camp.'"
The Distribution of Spoils
31:25 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 31:26 "You and Eleazar the priest,
and all the family heads of the community, take the sum25 of the
plunder that was captured, both people and animals. 31:27 Divide the
plunder into two parts, one for those who took part in the war, who
went out to battle, and the other for all the community.
31:28 "You must exact26 a tribute for the Lord from the men of war who
went out to battle: one life out of five hundred, from the people, the
cattle, and from the donkeys and the sheep. 31:29 You are to take it
from their half-share and give it to Eleazar the priest for a raised
offering to the Lord. 31:30 From the Israelites' half-share you are to
take one portion out of fifty of the people, the cattle, the donkeys,
and the sheep--from every kind of animal--and you are to give them to
the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the tabernacle of the
Lord."
31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:32 The spoil that remained of the plunder which the men27 of war had
gathered28 was 675,000 sheep, 31:33 72,000 cattle, 31:34 61,000
donkeys, 31:35 and 32,000 women who had never had sexual

intercourse

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
with a man.29
31:36 The half-portion of those who went to war numbered 337,500 sheep;
31:37 the Lord's tribute from the sheep was 675. 31:38 The cattle
numbered30 36,000; the Lord's tribute was 72. 31:39 The donkeys were
30,500, of which the Lord's tribute was 61. 31:40 The people were
16,000, of which the Lord's tribute was 32 people.31
31:41 So Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord's raised offering,
to Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:42 From the Israelites' half-share that Moses had separated from the
warriors,32 31:43 there were 337,500 sheep from the portion belonging
to the community, 31:44 36,000 cattle, 31:45 30,500 donkeys, 31:46 and
16,000 people.
31:47 From the Israelites' share Moses took one of every fifty people
and animals and gave them to the Levites who were responsible for the
care of the tabernacle of the Lord, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:48 Then the officers who were over the thousands of the army, the
commanders over thousands and the commanders over hundreds, approached
Moses 31:49 and said to him,33 "Your servants have taken a count34 of
the men who were in the battle, who were under our authority,35 and not
one is missing. 31:50 So we have brought for an offering for the Lord
what each man found: gold ornaments, armlets, bracelets, signet rings,
earrings, and necklaces, to make atonement for ourselves36 before the
Lord."37 31:51 Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold from them,
all of it fashioned into ornaments. 31:52 All the gold of the offering
they had offered up to the Lord from the commanders of thousands and
the commanders of hundreds weighed 16,750 shekels.38 31:53 Each soldier
had taken plunder for himself. 31:54 So Moses and Eleazar the priest
received the gold from the commanders of thousands and

commanders39 of

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
hundreds and brought it into the tent of meeting as a memorial40 for
the Israelites before the Lord.
[end quote]
Yeah, Twain mentions it in his Letters From the Earth but it's such a
great story to destroy such pompous ideas that the Bible is a book of
"high morals." How can *any* Christian square this story away with
being the same "loving" God that's supposed to be Jesus? Most *smart*
people would have excised such garbage as bad public relations for a
supposed all loving deity.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/bill_schultz/criminal-god.html

[Rump Ranger]

Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:11:09 GMT, "Kirk Chalmers"

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Not some formal, ceremonial thing, but personal salvation. I have been
unsaved, and I have doubted.
God has converted me. The inner peace is something beyond words, beyond
human reasoning. The destiny of my soul is assured. Is yours?

What a remarkably stupid question to ask on an atheist newsgroup.

Looks like Kirk Chalmers thinks he knows God's Will down to a tee.
He's, of course, chosen to enter Heaven. Weren't the Christians
prattling on about how "God works in mysterious ways"? If Kirk knows
how God really works, what the hell is so mysterious about it?

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by Kirk Chalmers
May Almighty God touch you with His perfect love ...

If Satan and Hell really exist may you be consigned there for
eternity.

Actually, Hell is where all the fun people go. Read Twain, dude.
Heaven is basically an eternal church service, something even the most
ardent true believer has a hard time sitting through for an hour a
week. If they don't enjoy it on earth for one out of every seven days,
how do they think they're going to really enjoy it 24/7 for eternity?
It's truly a Divine Comedy, won't you agree?

[Bill]

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.
We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath. It is only by His
lovng and incomprehensible mercy that you or I are allowed to take that next
breath.

I am now turning 80 years of age and have been an atheist for about 65 of
those eighty years. I have promoted atheism for all of those years. I have
declared that god does not exist for all of those years.

I have had religious friends that have died and suffered painful illnesses
and death over these years.

I served for almost three years in the Army during W.W.II and saw many
highly religious types killed and wounded. I survived W.W.II without a
scratch. Why didn't god smite me for my atheism?

I lived a full and enjoyable life, free of disease and accidents. I have
flown thousands of hours as a pilot. I have driven many thousands of miles
by car.
Why did god not punish me in an accident?

About five years ago I had a heart attack. I've fully recovered from this.
Why did god not make it fatal or at least debilitating?

A few years ago I suffered from a ruptured appendix. This is frequently
fatal. Why have I not been punished by death for my lack of belief in god?

If god created heaven and earth and is all good, why does he permit babies
to be still born or born with serious and permanent disabilities and permit
non
believers like me to live and prosper?

Where is there ANY objective evidence that believers live any longer,
healthier, wealthier or enjoyable lives?

It would seem there is no god to met out punishments and rewards.

Bill

Post by Kirk Chalmers
God has offered redemption for man through the sacrifice of Jesus
Christ. You may not understand that, but how can any man understand the
mind of God?!
God says that He will confound the minds of the wise with simple truths.
Open your mind, allow God to talk to your inner spirit. He will if you
approach him with sincerity. You obviously are an intelligent person as
evidenced by your writing. God has more for you. He offers you salvation.
Not some formal, ceremonial thing, but personal salvation. I have been
unsaved, and I have doubted.
God has converted me. The inner peace is something beyond words, beyond
human reasoning. The destiny of my soul is assured. Is yours?
May Almighty God touch you with His perfect love ...
Kirk

I've been waiting for almost 80 Years. When do I get that touch?

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities? Looking at the universe only two
conclusions can be drawn about God in regards to us (assuming if it
1. God doesn't give much of a shit about humanity so there's no point
in giving much of a crap about it.
or
2. The Judeo-Christian God of the Bible is the worst criminal to ever
How else can you explain the fact that he supported genocide of the
Midianites and having the 32000 surviving virgins (who were obviously
grieving the loss of their families and were violated by having their
vaginas inspected to see if the hymen was intact against their will)
sold into sex slavery? Is that moral?
[quote]
http://www.bible.org/netbible2/index.php?header=&book=num&chapter=31
The Midianite War
31:11 The Lord spoke to Moses: 31:2 "Exact vengeance2 for the
Israelites on the Midianites3--after that you will be gathered to your
people."4
31:3 So Moses spoke to the people: "Arm5 men from among you for the
war, to go against the Midianites and to execute6 the vengeance of the
Lord on Midian. 31:4 You must send to the battle a thousand men from
every tribe throughout all the tribes of Israel."7 31:5 So a thousand
from every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war in all, were provided
out of the thousands of Israel.
Campaign Against the Midianites
31:6 So Moses sent them to the war, one thousand from every tribe, with
Phinehas son of Eleazar the priest, who was in charge8 of the holy
articles9 and the signal trumpets in his hand. 31:7 They fought against
the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed every
male.10 31:8 They killed the kings of Midian in addition to those
slain--Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba--five Midianite kings.11 They
also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.12
31:9 The Israelites took the women of Midian captives along with their
little ones, and took all their herds, all their flocks, and all their
goods as plunder. 31:10 They burned13 all their towns14 that they had
inhabited and all their encampments. 31:11 They took all the plunder
and all the spoils, both people and animals. 31:12 They brought the
captives and the spoils and the plunder to Moses, to Eleazar the
priest, and to the Israelite community, to the camp on the steppes of
Moab, along the Jordan River15 across from Jericho.16 31:13 Moses,
Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the community went out to
meet them outside the camp.
The Death of the Midianite Women
31:14 But Moses was furious with the officers of the army, the
commanders over thousands and commanders over hundreds, who had come
from service in the war. 31:15 Moses said to them, "Have you allowed
all the women to live?17 31:16 Look, these people through the counsel
of Balaam caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the Lord
in the matter of Peor--and there was the plague among the community of
the Lord. 31:17 Now therefore kill every boy,18 and kill every woman
who has had sexual intercourse with a man.19 31:18 But all the young
women20 who have not had sexual intercourse with a man21 will be
yours.22
Purification After Battle
31:19 "Any of you who has killed anyone or touched any of the dead,
remain outside the camp for seven days; purify yourselves and your
captives on the third day, and on the seventh day. 31:20 You must
purify each garment and everything that is made of skin, everything
made of goat's hair, and everything made of wood."23
31:21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the men of war who had gone into
the battle, "This is the ordinance of the law that the Lord commanded
Moses: 31:22 'Only the gold, the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin,
and the lead, 31:23 everything that may stand the fire, you are to pass
through the fire,24 and it will be clean, but then it must be purified
with the waters of impurity. Anything that cannot withstand the fire
you must pass through the water. 31:24 You must wash your clothes on
the seventh day, and you will be clean, and afterward you may come into
the camp.'"
The Distribution of Spoils
31:25 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 31:26 "You and Eleazar the priest,
and all the family heads of the community, take the sum25 of the
plunder that was captured, both people and animals. 31:27 Divide the
plunder into two parts, one for those who took part in the war, who
went out to battle, and the other for all the community.
31:28 "You must exact26 a tribute for the Lord from the men of war who
went out to battle: one life out of five hundred, from the people, the
cattle, and from the donkeys and the sheep. 31:29 You are to take it
from their half-share and give it to Eleazar the priest for a raised
offering to the Lord. 31:30 From the Israelites' half-share you are to
take one portion out of fifty of the people, the cattle, the donkeys,
and the sheep--from every kind of animal--and you are to give them to
the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the tabernacle of the
Lord."
31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:32 The spoil that remained of the plunder which the men27 of war had
gathered28 was 675,000 sheep, 31:33 72,000 cattle, 31:34 61,000
donkeys, 31:35 and 32,000 women who had never had sexual intercourse
with a man.29
31:36 The half-portion of those who went to war numbered 337,500 sheep;
31:37 the Lord's tribute from the sheep was 675. 31:38 The cattle
numbered30 36,000; the Lord's tribute was 72. 31:39 The donkeys were
30,500, of which the Lord's tribute was 61. 31:40 The people were
16,000, of which the Lord's tribute was 32 people.31
31:41 So Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord's raised offering,
to Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:42 From the Israelites' half-share that Moses had separated from the
warriors,32 31:43 there were 337,500 sheep from the portion belonging
to the community, 31:44 36,000 cattle, 31:45 30,500 donkeys, 31:46 and
16,000 people.
31:47 From the Israelites' share Moses took one of every fifty people
and animals and gave them to the Levites who were responsible for the
care of the tabernacle of the Lord, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:48 Then the officers who were over the thousands of the army, the
commanders over thousands and the commanders over hundreds, approached
Moses 31:49 and said to him,33 "Your servants have taken a count34 of
the men who were in the battle, who were under our authority,35 and not
one is missing. 31:50 So we have brought for an offering for the Lord
what each man found: gold ornaments, armlets, bracelets, signet rings,
earrings, and necklaces, to make atonement for ourselves36 before the
Lord."37 31:51 Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold from them,
all of it fashioned into ornaments. 31:52 All the gold of the offering
they had offered up to the Lord from the commanders of thousands and
the commanders of hundreds weighed 16,750 shekels.38 31:53 Each soldier
had taken plunder for himself. 31:54 So Moses and Eleazar the priest
received the gold from the commanders of thousands and commanders39 of
hundreds and brought it into the tent of meeting as a memorial40 for
the Israelites before the Lord.
[end quote]
Yeah, Twain mentions it in his Letters From the Earth but it's such a
great story to destroy such pompous ideas that the Bible is a book of
"high morals." How can *any* Christian square this story away with
being the same "loving" God that's supposed to be Jesus? Most *smart*
people would have excised such garbage as bad public relations for a
supposed all loving deity.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/bill_schultz/criminal-god.html

[Glenn (Christian Mystic)]

Its not over yet, 80 years is a very short time compared to the eternity

Post by Bill

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.
We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath. It is only by His
lovng and incomprehensible mercy that you or I are allowed to take that

next

Post by Kirk Chalmers
breath.

I am now turning 80 years of age and have been an atheist for about 65 of
those eighty years. I have promoted atheism for all of those years. I have
declared that god does not exist for all of those years.
I have had religious friends that have died and suffered painful illnesses
and death over these years.
I served for almost three years in the Army during W.W.II and saw many
highly religious types killed and wounded. I survived W.W.II without a
scratch. Why didn't god smite me for my atheism?
I lived a full and enjoyable life, free of disease and accidents. I have
flown thousands of hours as a pilot. I have driven many thousands of miles
by car.
Why did god not punish me in an accident?
About five years ago I had a heart attack. I've fully recovered from this.
Why did god not make it fatal or at least debilitating?
A few years ago I suffered from a ruptured appendix. This is frequently
fatal. Why have I not been punished by death for my lack of belief in god?
If god created heaven and earth and is all good, why does he permit babies
to be still born or born with serious and permanent disabilities and permit
non
believers like me to live and prosper?
Where is there ANY objective evidence that believers live any longer,
healthier, wealthier or enjoyable lives?
It would seem there is no god to met out punishments and rewards.
Bill

Post by Kirk Chalmers
God has offered redemption for man through the sacrifice of Jesus
Christ. You may not understand that, but how can any man understand the
mind of God?!
God says that He will confound the minds of the wise with simple truths.
Open your mind, allow God to talk to your inner spirit. He will if you
approach him with sincerity. You obviously are an intelligent person as
evidenced by your writing. God has more for you. He offers you

salvation.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Not some formal, ceremonial thing, but personal salvation. I have been
unsaved, and I have doubted.
God has converted me. The inner peace is something beyond words, beyond
human reasoning. The destiny of my soul is assured. Is yours?
May Almighty God touch you with His perfect love ...
Kirk

I've been waiting for almost 80 Years. When do I get that touch?

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities? Looking at the universe only two
conclusions can be drawn about God in regards to us (assuming if it
1. God doesn't give much of a shit about humanity so there's no point
in giving much of a crap about it.
or
2. The Judeo-Christian God of the Bible is the worst criminal to ever
How else can you explain the fact that he supported genocide of the
Midianites and having the 32000 surviving virgins (who were obviously
grieving the loss of their families and were violated by having their
vaginas inspected to see if the hymen was intact against their will)
sold into sex slavery? Is that moral?
[quote]
http://www.bible.org/netbible2/index.php?header=&book=num&chapter=31
The Midianite War
31:11 The Lord spoke to Moses: 31:2 "Exact vengeance2 for the
Israelites on the Midianites3--after that you will be gathered to your
people."4
31:3 So Moses spoke to the people: "Arm5 men from among you for the
war, to go against the Midianites and to execute6 the vengeance of the
Lord on Midian. 31:4 You must send to the battle a thousand men from
every tribe throughout all the tribes of Israel."7 31:5 So a thousand
from every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war in all, were provided
out of the thousands of Israel.
Campaign Against the Midianites
31:6 So Moses sent them to the war, one thousand from every tribe, with
Phinehas son of Eleazar the priest, who was in charge8 of the holy
articles9 and the signal trumpets in his hand. 31:7 They fought against
the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed every
male.10 31:8 They killed the kings of Midian in addition to those
slain--Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba--five Midianite kings.11 They
also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.12
31:9 The Israelites took the women of Midian captives along with their
little ones, and took all their herds, all their flocks, and all their
goods as plunder. 31:10 They burned13 all their towns14 that they had
inhabited and all their encampments. 31:11 They took all the plunder
and all the spoils, both people and animals. 31:12 They brought the
captives and the spoils and the plunder to Moses, to Eleazar the
priest, and to the Israelite community, to the camp on the steppes of
Moab, along the Jordan River15 across from Jericho.16 31:13 Moses,
Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the community went out to
meet them outside the camp.
The Death of the Midianite Women
31:14 But Moses was furious with the officers of the army, the
commanders over thousands and commanders over hundreds, who had come
from service in the war. 31:15 Moses said to them, "Have you allowed
all the women to live?17 31:16 Look, these people through the counsel
of Balaam caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the Lord
in the matter of Peor--and there was the plague among the community of
the Lord. 31:17 Now therefore kill every boy,18 and kill every woman
who has had sexual intercourse with a man.19 31:18 But all the young
women20 who have not had sexual intercourse with a man21 will be
yours.22
Purification After Battle
31:19 "Any of you who has killed anyone or touched any of the dead,
remain outside the camp for seven days; purify yourselves and your
captives on the third day, and on the seventh day. 31:20 You must
purify each garment and everything that is made of skin, everything
made of goat's hair, and everything made of wood."23
31:21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the men of war who had gone into
the battle, "This is the ordinance of the law that the Lord commanded
Moses: 31:22 'Only the gold, the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin,
and the lead, 31:23 everything that may stand the fire, you are to pass
through the fire,24 and it will be clean, but then it must be purified
with the waters of impurity. Anything that cannot withstand the fire
you must pass through the water. 31:24 You must wash your clothes on
the seventh day, and you will be clean, and afterward you may come into
the camp.'"
The Distribution of Spoils
31:25 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 31:26 "You and Eleazar the priest,
and all the family heads of the community, take the sum25 of the
plunder that was captured, both people and animals. 31:27 Divide the
plunder into two parts, one for those who took part in the war, who
went out to battle, and the other for all the community.
31:28 "You must exact26 a tribute for the Lord from the men of war who
went out to battle: one life out of five hundred, from the people, the
cattle, and from the donkeys and the sheep. 31:29 You are to take it
from their half-share and give it to Eleazar the priest for a raised
offering to the Lord. 31:30 From the Israelites' half-share you are to
take one portion out of fifty of the people, the cattle, the donkeys,
and the sheep--from every kind of animal--and you are to give them to
the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the tabernacle of the
Lord."
31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:32 The spoil that remained of the plunder which the men27 of war had
gathered28 was 675,000 sheep, 31:33 72,000 cattle, 31:34 61,000
donkeys, 31:35 and 32,000 women who had never had sexual intercourse
with a man.29
31:36 The half-portion of those who went to war numbered 337,500 sheep;
31:37 the Lord's tribute from the sheep was 675. 31:38 The cattle
numbered30 36,000; the Lord's tribute was 72. 31:39 The donkeys were
30,500, of which the Lord's tribute was 61. 31:40 The people were
16,000, of which the Lord's tribute was 32 people.31
31:41 So Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord's raised offering,
to Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:42 From the Israelites' half-share that Moses had separated from the
warriors,32 31:43 there were 337,500 sheep from the portion belonging
to the community, 31:44 36,000 cattle, 31:45 30,500 donkeys, 31:46 and
16,000 people.
31:47 From the Israelites' share Moses took one of every fifty people
and animals and gave them to the Levites who were responsible for the
care of the tabernacle of the Lord, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:48 Then the officers who were over the thousands of the army, the
commanders over thousands and the commanders over hundreds, approached
Moses 31:49 and said to him,33 "Your servants have taken a count34 of
the men who were in the battle, who were under our authority,35 and not
one is missing. 31:50 So we have brought for an offering for the Lord
what each man found: gold ornaments, armlets, bracelets, signet rings,
earrings, and necklaces, to make atonement for ourselves36 before the
Lord."37 31:51 Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold from them,
all of it fashioned into ornaments. 31:52 All the gold of the offering
they had offered up to the Lord from the commanders of thousands and
the commanders of hundreds weighed 16,750 shekels.38 31:53 Each soldier
had taken plunder for himself. 31:54 So Moses and Eleazar the priest
received the gold from the commanders of thousands and commanders39 of
hundreds and brought it into the tent of meeting as a memorial40 for
the Israelites before the Lord.
[end quote]
Yeah, Twain mentions it in his Letters From the Earth but it's such a
great story to destroy such pompous ideas that the Bible is a book of
"high morals." How can *any* Christian square this story away with
being the same "loving" God that's supposed to be Jesus? Most *smart*
people would have excised such garbage as bad public relations for a
supposed all loving deity.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/bill_schultz/criminal-god.html

[William]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:11:09 GMT, "Kirk Chalmers"

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.
We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath.

So why should we take any notice of anything YOU say?

William

[Christopher A. Lee]

Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:11:09 GMT, "Kirk Chalmers"

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.
We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath.

So why should we take any notice of anything YOU say?

Reminds me of one of my first flamefests, with somebody who called me
evil. Turned out his doctrine was that everybody was evil. I objected
to being described by a word used to describe only the most heinous
acts, like the holocaust. He couldn't understand why anybody would
feel insulted. Or that he no longer had any word to describe it.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
William

[William]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 15:13:33 -0500, Christopher A. Lee

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by William

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.
We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath.

So why should we take any notice of anything YOU say?

Reminds me of one of my first flamefests, with somebody who called me
evil. Turned out his doctrine was that everybody was evil. I objected
to being described by a word used to describe only the most heinous
acts, like the holocaust. He couldn't understand why anybody would
feel insulted. Or that he no longer had any word to describe it.

I'm amazed how many Christians tell us how grovellingly bad and sinful
they are and then expect us to take on faith all kinds of things as
true on their authority.

William

[Christopher A. Lee]

Post by William
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 15:13:33 -0500, Christopher A. Lee

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by William

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.
We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath.

So why should we take any notice of anything YOU say?

Reminds me of one of my first flamefests, with somebody who called me
evil. Turned out his doctrine was that everybody was evil. I objected
to being described by a word used to describe only the most heinous
acts, like the holocaust. He couldn't understand why anybody would
feel insulted. Or that he no longer had any word to describe it.

I'm amazed how many Christians tell us how grovellingly bad and sinful
they are and then expect us to take on faith all kinds of things as
true on their authority.

I don't care how much they debase themselves. It's their pretence that
we are just as bad.

Post by William
William

[Al Klein]

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 06:09:52 -0500, Christopher A. Lee

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by William
I'm amazed how many Christians tell us how grovellingly bad and sinful
they are and then expect us to take on faith all kinds of things as
true on their authority.

I don't care how much they debase themselves. It's their pretence that
we are just as bad.

I think William's point was, why should they expect us to accept the
word of an avowed sinner?

[Rump Ranger]

Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:11:09 GMT, "Kirk Chalmers"

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.
We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath.

So why should we take any notice of anything YOU say?

Because, because, because............

He knows what God really thinks!

[Vic Sagerquist]

on 20 Jan 2005 in alt.atheism, Kirk Chalmers dropped trou, farted,

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.
We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath. It is only by
His lovng and incomprehensible mercy that you or I are allowed to take
that next breath. God has offered redemption for man through the
sacrifice of Jesus Christ. You may not understand that, but how can
any man understand the mind of God?!
God says that He will confound the minds of the wise with simple truths.
Open your mind, allow God to talk to your inner spirit. He will if
you approach him with sincerity. You obviously are an intelligent
person as evidenced by your writing. God has more for you. He offers
you salvation. Not some formal, ceremonial thing, but personal
salvation. I have been unsaved, and I have doubted.
God has converted me. The inner peace is something beyond words,
beyond human reasoning. The destiny of my soul is assured. Is yours?
May Almighty God touch you with His perfect love ...

--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________

Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are the kind of
people you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place?
--George Carlin

[Vic Sagerquist]

on 20 Jan 2005 in alt.atheism, Kirk Chalmers dropped trou, farted, whirled,

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.
We are all sinners

Kindly speak for yourself. I am not a sinner. I don't believe your god
story, thus sin has no meaning to me. I'm sorry your delusions lead you
down the road to poor self-esteem, but leave me out of it.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________

Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are the kind of
people you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place?
--George Carlin

[Al Klein]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:11:09 GMT, "Kirk Chalmers"

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.
We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath.

You posted this to, among other groups, alt.atheism - where it's
forbidden. Please keep religious bullshit in religious news groups.

[Olrik]

Kirk Chalmers wrote:

<snip>

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Open your mind, allow God to talk to your inner spirit.

Man, that sounds like Darth Vader trying to lure Luke to the dark side
of the force...

Post by Kirk Chalmers
He will if you
approach him with sincerity.

Hey! Just like my neighbour's dog! Bring a biscuit, get a lifelong friend!

Post by Kirk Chalmers
You obviously are an intelligent person as
evidenced by your writing. God has more for you. He offers you salvation.
Not some formal, ceremonial thing, but personal salvation. I have been
unsaved, and I have doubted.
God has converted me. The inner peace is something beyond words, beyond
human reasoning. The destiny of my soul is assured. Is yours?
May Almighty God touch you with His perfect love ...

Or else you'll feel "his" perfect lightsaber! That's love for ya!


Well, no wonder George Lucas is a crypto-fascist xian.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Kirk

<snip>

[Barry OGrady]

Post by Olrik
<snip>

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Open your mind, allow God to talk to your inner spirit.

Man, that sounds like Darth Vader trying to lure Luke to the dark side
of the force...

Post by Kirk Chalmers
He will if you
approach him with sincerity.

Hey! Just like my neighbour's dog! Bring a biscuit, get a lifelong friend!

Post by Kirk Chalmers
You obviously are an intelligent person as
evidenced by your writing. God has more for you. He offers you salvation.
Not some formal, ceremonial thing, but personal salvation. I have been
unsaved, and I have doubted.
God has converted me. The inner peace is something beyond words, beyond
human reasoning. The destiny of my soul is assured. Is yours?
May Almighty God touch you with His perfect love ...

Or else you'll feel "his" perfect lightsaber! That's love for ya!

God is offering to save you from himself. What more could you ask?
Mind you, God's promises have never come true so I'm not sure you should trust him.

Post by Olrik
Well, no wonder George Lucas is a crypto-fascist xian.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Kirk

<snip>
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division

-Barry
========
"I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for
their numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible;
in my opinion, only His nonexistence could excuse Him."
[A. Einstein (Letter to Edgar Meyer, Jan. 2, 1915)]

Web page: http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.

[stoney]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 02:39:53 +1100, Barry OGrady

Post by Barry OGrady

Post by Olrik
<snip>

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Open your mind, allow God to talk to your inner spirit.

Man, that sounds like Darth Vader trying to lure Luke to the dark side
of the force...

Post by Kirk Chalmers
He will if you
approach him with sincerity.

Hey! Just like my neighbour's dog! Bring a biscuit, get a lifelong friend!

Post by Kirk Chalmers
You obviously are an intelligent person as
evidenced by your writing. God has more for you. He offers you salvation.
Not some formal, ceremonial thing, but personal salvation. I have been
unsaved, and I have doubted.
God has converted me. The inner peace is something beyond words, beyond
human reasoning. The destiny of my soul is assured. Is yours?
May Almighty God touch you with His perfect love ...

Or else you'll feel "his" perfect lightsaber! That's love for ya!

God is offering to save you from himself. What more could you ask?
Mind you, God's promises have never come true so I'm not sure you should trust him.

Don't forget 'God' lies and it is good.

[]

[Al Klein]

Post by Olrik

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Open your mind, allow God to talk to your inner spirit.

Man, that sounds like Darth Vader trying to lure Luke to the dark side
of the force...

Post by Kirk Chalmers
He will if you
approach him with sincerity.

Hey! Just like my neighbour's dog! Bring a biscuit, get a lifelong friend!

Except that your neighbor's dog:
1) exists
and
2) has a certain level of intelligence.

[Olrik]

Post by Al Klein

Post by Olrik

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Open your mind, allow God to talk to your inner spirit.

Man, that sounds like Darth Vader trying to lure Luke to the dark side
of the force...

Post by Kirk Chalmers
He will if you
approach him with sincerity.

Hey! Just like my neighbour's dog! Bring a biscuit, get a lifelong friend!

1) exists
and
2) has a certain level of intelligence.

3) And he's not as viscious.

[Tommy]

In news:cqjId.61274$***@weber.videotron.net,
Olrik <> was heard piping ``(*^(\)

Post by Olrik

Post by Al Klein
1) exists
and
2) has a certain level of intelligence.

3) And he's not as viscious.

Thats probably because he's _well-oiled_
{*-)
Tommy

[Rump Ranger]

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.

The problem is that man thinks too highly of *himself.*

Post by Kirk Chalmers
We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath. It is only by His
lovng and incomprehensible mercy that you or I are allowed to take that next
breath. God has offered redemption for man through the sacrifice of Jesus
Christ. You may not understand that, but how can any man understand the
mind of God?!

Indeed. It's hard to understand how a God can be the "perfect example
of love" while also telling the Israelites to commit genocide against
the Minianites, having the surviving women violated in the *worst* way
possible by forcing all of them to have their vaginas checked to see
intact hymens, and then selling the virgins into sex slavery. God
spared nobody. Not even their animals.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
God says that He will confound the minds of the wise with simple truths.

Bah. Such crap doesn't explain why I should follow a God who advocated
the genocide of peoples like he did in Numbers.

Post by Kirk Chalmers
Open your mind, allow God to talk to your inner spirit. He will if you
approach him with sincerity. You obviously are an intelligent person as
evidenced by your writing. God has more for you. He offers you salvation.
Not some formal, ceremonial thing, but personal salvation. I have been
unsaved, and I have doubted.
God has converted me. The inner peace is something beyond words, beyond
human reasoning. The destiny of my soul is assured. Is yours?
May Almighty God touch you with His perfect love ...

If his "perfect love" is about killing men, women, children, and beasts
of a whole people while making sex slaves of their virgins I want *no
part* of it.
How else can he be "perfect love" if he knew before hand that billions
to every one will end up in everlasting torment in hell as opposed to
heaven? Why would an all loving God even sentence one soul to
everlasting torments in Hell?

If God is truly loving, he has one hell of a way of showing it (pardon
the pun).

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities? Looking at the universe only two
conclusions can be drawn about God in regards to us (assuming if it
1. God doesn't give much of a shit about humanity so there's no point
in giving much of a crap about it.
or
2. The Judeo-Christian God of the Bible is the worst criminal to ever
How else can you explain the fact that he supported genocide of the
Midianites and having the 32000 surviving virgins (who were

obviously

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
grieving the loss of their families and were violated by having their
vaginas inspected to see if the hymen was intact against their will)
sold into sex slavery? Is that moral?
[quote]

http://www.bible.org/netbible2/index.php?header=&book=num&chapter=31

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
The Midianite War
31:11 The Lord spoke to Moses: 31:2 "Exact vengeance2 for the
Israelites on the Midianites3--after that you will be gathered to your
people."4
31:3 So Moses spoke to the people: "Arm5 men from among you for the
war, to go against the Midianites and to execute6 the vengeance of the
Lord on Midian. 31:4 You must send to the battle a thousand men from
every tribe throughout all the tribes of Israel."7 31:5 So a

thousand

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
from every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war in all, were

provided

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
out of the thousands of Israel.
Campaign Against the Midianites
31:6 So Moses sent them to the war, one thousand from every tribe, with
Phinehas son of Eleazar the priest, who was in charge8 of the holy
articles9 and the signal trumpets in his hand. 31:7 They fought against
the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed every
male.10 31:8 They killed the kings of Midian in addition to those
slain--Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba--five Midianite kings.11 They
also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.12
31:9 The Israelites took the women of Midian captives along with their
little ones, and took all their herds, all their flocks, and all their
goods as plunder. 31:10 They burned13 all their towns14 that they had
inhabited and all their encampments. 31:11 They took all the

plunder

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
and all the spoils, both people and animals. 31:12 They brought the
captives and the spoils and the plunder to Moses, to Eleazar the
priest, and to the Israelite community, to the camp on the steppes of
Moab, along the Jordan River15 across from Jericho.16 31:13 Moses,
Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the community went out to
meet them outside the camp.
The Death of the Midianite Women
31:14 But Moses was furious with the officers of the army, the
commanders over thousands and commanders over hundreds, who had come
from service in the war. 31:15 Moses said to them, "Have you

allowed

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
all the women to live?17 31:16 Look, these people through the counsel
of Balaam caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the Lord
in the matter of Peor--and there was the plague among the community of
the Lord. 31:17 Now therefore kill every boy,18 and kill every woman
who has had sexual intercourse with a man.19 31:18 But all the young
women20 who have not had sexual intercourse with a man21 will be
yours.22
Purification After Battle
31:19 "Any of you who has killed anyone or touched any of the dead,
remain outside the camp for seven days; purify yourselves and your
captives on the third day, and on the seventh day. 31:20 You must
purify each garment and everything that is made of skin, everything
made of goat's hair, and everything made of wood."23
31:21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the men of war who had gone into
the battle, "This is the ordinance of the law that the Lord

commanded

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
Moses: 31:22 'Only the gold, the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin,
and the lead, 31:23 everything that may stand the fire, you are to pass
through the fire,24 and it will be clean, but then it must be purified
with the waters of impurity. Anything that cannot withstand the fire
you must pass through the water. 31:24 You must wash your clothes on
the seventh day, and you will be clean, and afterward you may come into
the camp.'"
The Distribution of Spoils
31:25 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 31:26 "You and Eleazar the priest,
and all the family heads of the community, take the sum25 of the
plunder that was captured, both people and animals. 31:27 Divide the
plunder into two parts, one for those who took part in the war, who
went out to battle, and the other for all the community.
31:28 "You must exact26 a tribute for the Lord from the men of war who
went out to battle: one life out of five hundred, from the people, the
cattle, and from the donkeys and the sheep. 31:29 You are to take it
from their half-share and give it to Eleazar the priest for a raised
offering to the Lord. 31:30 From the Israelites' half-share you are to
take one portion out of fifty of the people, the cattle, the

donkeys,

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
and the sheep--from every kind of animal--and you are to give them to
the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the tabernacle of the
Lord."
31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:32 The spoil that remained of the plunder which the men27 of war had
gathered28 was 675,000 sheep, 31:33 72,000 cattle, 31:34 61,000
donkeys, 31:35 and 32,000 women who had never had sexual

intercourse

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
with a man.29
31:36 The half-portion of those who went to war numbered 337,500 sheep;
31:37 the Lord's tribute from the sheep was 675. 31:38 The cattle
numbered30 36,000; the Lord's tribute was 72. 31:39 The donkeys were
30,500, of which the Lord's tribute was 61. 31:40 The people were
16,000, of which the Lord's tribute was 32 people.31
31:41 So Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord's raised

offering,

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
to Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:42 From the Israelites' half-share that Moses had separated from the
warriors,32 31:43 there were 337,500 sheep from the portion

belonging

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
to the community, 31:44 36,000 cattle, 31:45 30,500 donkeys, 31:46 and
16,000 people.
31:47 From the Israelites' share Moses took one of every fifty people
and animals and gave them to the Levites who were responsible for the
care of the tabernacle of the Lord, as the Lord commanded Moses.
31:48 Then the officers who were over the thousands of the army, the
commanders over thousands and the commanders over hundreds,

approached

Post by Kirk Chalmers

Post by Rump Ranger
Moses 31:49 and said to him,33 "Your servants have taken a count34 of
the men who were in the battle, who were under our authority,35 and not
one is missing. 31:50 So we have brought for an offering for the Lord
what each man found: gold ornaments, armlets, bracelets, signet rings,
earrings, and necklaces, to make atonement for ourselves36 before the
Lord."37 31:51 Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold from them,
all of it fashioned into ornaments. 31:52 All the gold of the offering
they had offered up to the Lord from the commanders of thousands and
the commanders of hundreds weighed 16,750 shekels.38 31:53 Each soldier
had taken plunder for himself. 31:54 So Moses and Eleazar the priest
received the gold from the commanders of thousands and commanders39 of
hundreds and brought it into the tent of meeting as a memorial40 for
the Israelites before the Lord.
[end quote]
Yeah, Twain mentions it in his Letters From the Earth but it's such a
great story to destroy such pompous ideas that the Bible is a book of
"high morals." How can *any* Christian square this story away with
being the same "loving" God that's supposed to be Jesus? Most *smart*
people would have excised such garbage as bad public relations for a
supposed all loving deity.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/bill_schultz/criminal-god.html

[Glenn (Christian Mystic)]

<snip>

Post by Rump Ranger
If his "perfect love" is about killing men, women, children, and beasts
of a whole people while making sex slaves of their virgins I want *no
part* of it.
How else can he be "perfect love" if he knew before hand that billions
to every one will end up in everlasting torment in hell as opposed to
heaven? Why would an all loving God even sentence one soul to
everlasting torments in Hell?
If God is truly loving, he has one hell of a way of showing it (pardon
the pun).

1Tim.2:3-4

<snipped old stuff>

[stoney]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:11:09 GMT, "Kirk Chalmers"

Post by Kirk Chalmers
It seems you think much too highly of man.
We are all sinners and deserving of God's moral wrath.

You are a fucking idiot. Please remove yourself immediately from the
gene pool. Thank you.

[Tukla Ratte]

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities?

Given his statement that all things come from him, including evil, you
might be able to say that he's the world's only criminal.

< snip >

[stoney]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:34:20 -0600, Tukla Ratte

Post by Tukla Ratte

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities?

Given his statement that all things come from him, including evil, you
might be able to say that he's the world's only criminal.

Since all are mere actors in a pointless play hitting their marks and
spouting their lines as scripted eons ago.

[w***@hotmail.com]

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities?

I can't wait until the next apocalypse so I can legally kill
christians, jews, muslims and atheists for the crimes they have
commited against humanity.

[duke]

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities?

Simple answer - he didn't. You atheists just don't understand.

duke
In God We Trust
*****
Matthew 7
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,'
will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he
who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
*****

[Rump Ranger]

Post by duke

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities?

Simple answer - he didn't. You atheists just don't understand.

So tell me what the *real meaning* about the book of Numbers Chapter 31
is about. Don't get all cryptic on me. I want in *plain English* an
explanation of why God told the Israelites to massacre all but 32000
Midianite women (including children, beasts, and women), have all the
women's vaginas checked to see if they had hymens (against their will
while they grieved the loss of their families), and then sold them into
sex slavery for life. How can this not be considered an atrocity?

[Jack G]

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by duke

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality

being

Post by duke

Post by Rump Ranger
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible

he

Post by duke

Post by Rump Ranger
instigated so many atrocities?

Simple answer - he didn't. You atheists just don't understand.

So tell me what the *real meaning* about the book of Numbers Chapter 31
is about. Don't get all cryptic on me. I want in *plain English* an
explanation of why God told the Israelites to massacre all but 32000
Midianite women (including children, beasts, and women), have all the
women's vaginas checked to see if they had hymens (against their will
while they grieved the loss of their families), and then sold them into
sex slavery for life. How can this not be considered an atrocity?

Maybe it wasn't considered an atrocity to the person/persons who wrote that
part of the bible. Or maybe it was considered an atrocity but the story of
it had a purpose. The people of Midian worshipped Baal and the Israelites
were tempted by Baal (or the baal worshipping Midianites). It was a divine
reprisal ordered by Moses against the people of Midian for their previous
temptation of the Israelites. That temptation caused the Israelites to
trespass against their god (the god of the bible). Maybe the story was
meant as a message to the Israelites--'worship the right god or else, look
what happened to the Midianites'.

[Robert McGregor]

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

On 20 Jan 2005 07:10:48 -0800, "Rump Ranger"

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and
morality

being

Post by Rump Ranger
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible

he

Post by Rump Ranger
instigated so many atrocities?

Simple answer - he didn't. You atheists just don't understand.

So tell me what the *real meaning* about the book of Numbers
Chapter 31
is about. Don't get all cryptic on me. I want in *plain English* an
explanation of why God told the Israelites to massacre all but 32000
Midianite women (including children, beasts, and women), have all the
women's vaginas checked to see if they had hymens (against their will
while they grieved the loss of their families), and then sold them into
sex slavery for life. How can this not be considered an atrocity?

Maybe it wasn't considered an atrocity to the person/persons who wrote that
part of the bible. Or maybe it was considered an atrocity but the story of
it had a purpose. The people of Midian worshipped Baal and the Israelites
were tempted by Baal (or the baal worshipping Midianites). It was a divine
reprisal ordered by Moses against the people of Midian for their previous
temptation of the Israelites. That temptation caused the
Israelites to
trespass against their god (the god of the bible). Maybe the
story was
meant as a message to the Israelites--'worship the right god or else, look
what happened to the Midianites'.

Just like the latest tsunami, or was that merely creative ineptitude
also?

Bob

[Jack G]

Post by Robert McGregor

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

On 20 Jan 2005 07:10:48 -0800, "Rump Ranger"

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and
morality

being

Post by Rump Ranger
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible

he

Post by Rump Ranger
instigated so many atrocities?

Simple answer - he didn't. You atheists just don't understand.

So tell me what the *real meaning* about the book of Numbers Chapter 31
is about. Don't get all cryptic on me. I want in *plain English* an
explanation of why God told the Israelites to massacre all but 32000
Midianite women (including children, beasts, and women), have all the
women's vaginas checked to see if they had hymens (against their will
while they grieved the loss of their families), and then sold them into
sex slavery for life. How can this not be considered an atrocity?

Maybe it wasn't considered an atrocity to the person/persons who wrote that
part of the bible. Or maybe it was considered an atrocity but the story of
it had a purpose. The people of Midian worshipped Baal and the Israelites
were tempted by Baal (or the baal worshipping Midianites). It was a divine
reprisal ordered by Moses against the people of Midian for their previous
temptation of the Israelites. That temptation caused the
Israelites to
trespass against their god (the god of the bible). Maybe the story was
meant as a message to the Israelites--'worship the right god or else, look
what happened to the Midianites'.

Just like the latest tsunami, or was that merely creative ineptitude
also?
Bob

The STORY of the Midianites may have had a purpose or message-that the
PERSON or PERSONS who wrote that part of the bible was trying to send.
Personally, I don't think it was god's message. I don't think the tsunami
was either a message from god or creative ineptitude.

[Kai Ruuska]

Post by Jack G
The STORY of the Midianites may have had a purpose or message-that the
PERSON or PERSONS who wrote that part of the bible was trying to send.
Personally, I don't think it was god's message. I don't think the tsunami
was either a message from god or creative ineptitude.

Of course it was, you silly. At least according to Westboro Babtist
Church of Topeka, Kansas, United States:

http://rawstory.rawprint.com/1204/westboro_tsunami_statement_1230.php

You're just weak in your faith and will burn in HELL for ETERNITY! Now
excuse me while I wipe the foam off my chin.

Kai

[Jack G]

Post by Kai Ruuska

Post by Jack G
The STORY of the Midianites may have had a purpose or message-that the
PERSON or PERSONS who wrote that part of the bible was trying to send.
Personally, I don't think it was god's message. I don't think the tsunami
was either a message from god or creative ineptitude.

Of course it was, you silly. At least according to Westboro Babtist
http://rawstory.rawprint.com/1204/westboro_tsunami_statement_1230.php
You're just weak in your faith and will burn in HELL for ETERNITY! Now
excuse me while I wipe the foam off my chin.
Kai

oh boy, here is the manifesto of that group (I kid you not):
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/manifesto.html

Lucky for them, Kansas is a long damn way from the ocean.

[Horatio]

Kai Ruuska wrote:
|| Jack G kirjoitti:
||
|||
||| The STORY of the Midianites may have had a purpose or message-that
||| the PERSON or PERSONS who wrote that part of the bible was trying
||| to send. Personally, I don't think it was god's message. I don't
||| think the tsunami was either a message from god or creative
||| ineptitude.
|||
||
|| Of course it was, you silly. At least according to Westboro Babtist
|| Church of Topeka, Kansas, United States:
||
|| http://rawstory.rawprint.com/1204/westboro_tsunami_statement_1230.php
||
|| You're just weak in your faith and will burn in HELL for ETERNITY!
|| Now excuse me while I wipe the foam off my chin.

Foam? On LIEbrawls chins, it's more likely cum.

||
|| Kai

[Tommy]

In news:cst7sl$9ib$***@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi,
Kai Ruuska <> was heard piping ``(*^(\)

Post by Kai Ruuska

Post by Jack G
The STORY of the Midianites may have had a purpose or message-that the
PERSON or PERSONS who wrote that part of the bible was trying to send.
Personally, I don't think it was god's message. I don't think the tsunami
was either a message from god or creative ineptitude.

Of course it was, you silly. At least according to Westboro Babtist
http://rawstory.rawprint.com/1204/westboro_tsunami_statement_1230.php
You're just weak in your faith and will burn in HELL for ETERNITY! Now
excuse me while I wipe the foam off my chin.
Kai

You got it wrong Kai, the yanks are shitting themselves. They know that God
got his co-ordinates wrong, it was meant to hit the East Coast of AMerikay.
The plan was to not even leave a bush standing. Remember the one about the
burning bush (in the bible)
:-))
Cheers
Tommy

[Rump Ranger]

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

On 20 Jan 2005 07:10:48 -0800, "Rump Ranger"

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality

being

Post by Rump Ranger
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible

he

Post by Rump Ranger
instigated so many atrocities?

Simple answer - he didn't. You atheists just don't understand.

So tell me what the *real meaning* about the book of Numbers

Chapter 31

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
is about. Don't get all cryptic on me. I want in *plain English* an
explanation of why God told the Israelites to massacre all but 32000
Midianite women (including children, beasts, and women), have all the
women's vaginas checked to see if they had hymens (against their will
while they grieved the loss of their families), and then sold them into
sex slavery for life. How can this not be considered an atrocity?

Maybe it wasn't considered an atrocity to the person/persons who wrote that
part of the bible. Or maybe it was considered an atrocity but the story of
it had a purpose. The people of Midian worshipped Baal and the Israelites
were tempted by Baal (or the baal worshipping Midianites). It was a divine
reprisal ordered by Moses against the people of Midian for their previous
temptation of the Israelites. That temptation caused the Israelites to
trespass against their god (the god of the bible). Maybe the story was
meant as a message to the Israelites--'worship the right god or else, look
what happened to the Midianites'.

IOW, the "one true God" was one hell of a *jealous* bastard.

[Jack G]

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

On 20 Jan 2005 07:10:48 -0800, "Rump Ranger"

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality

being

Post by Rump Ranger
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the

Bible

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
he

Post by Rump Ranger
instigated so many atrocities?

Simple answer - he didn't. You atheists just don't understand.

So tell me what the *real meaning* about the book of Numbers

Chapter 31

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
is about. Don't get all cryptic on me. I want in *plain English*

an

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
explanation of why God told the Israelites to massacre all but

32000

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
Midianite women (including children, beasts, and women), have all

the

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
women's vaginas checked to see if they had hymens (against their

will

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
while they grieved the loss of their families), and then sold them

into

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
sex slavery for life. How can this not be considered an atrocity?

Maybe it wasn't considered an atrocity to the person/persons who

wrote that

Post by Jack G
part of the bible. Or maybe it was considered an atrocity but the

story of

Post by Jack G
it had a purpose. The people of Midian worshipped Baal and the

Israelites

Post by Jack G
were tempted by Baal (or the baal worshipping Midianites). It was a

divine

Post by Jack G
reprisal ordered by Moses against the people of Midian for their

previous

Post by Jack G
temptation of the Israelites. That temptation caused the Israelites

to

Post by Jack G
trespass against their god (the god of the bible). Maybe the story

was

Post by Jack G
meant as a message to the Israelites--'worship the right god or else,

look

Post by Jack G
what happened to the Midianites'.

IOW, the "one true God" was one hell of a *jealous* bastard.

IOW, the "writer of the story" wanted somebody to think so maybe.

[Rump Ranger]

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

On 20 Jan 2005 07:10:48 -0800, "Rump Ranger"

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality

being

Post by Rump Ranger
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the

Bible

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
he

Post by Rump Ranger
instigated so many atrocities?

Simple answer - he didn't. You atheists just don't

understand.

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
So tell me what the *real meaning* about the book of Numbers

Chapter 31

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
is about. Don't get all cryptic on me. I want in *plain English*

an

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
explanation of why God told the Israelites to massacre all but

32000

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
Midianite women (including children, beasts, and women), have all

the

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
women's vaginas checked to see if they had hymens (against their

will

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
while they grieved the loss of their families), and then sold them

into

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
sex slavery for life. How can this not be considered an

atrocity?

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G
Maybe it wasn't considered an atrocity to the person/persons who

wrote that

Post by Jack G
part of the bible. Or maybe it was considered an atrocity but the

story of

Post by Jack G
it had a purpose. The people of Midian worshipped Baal and the

Israelites

Post by Jack G
were tempted by Baal (or the baal worshipping Midianites). It was a

divine

Post by Jack G
reprisal ordered by Moses against the people of Midian for their

previous

Post by Jack G
temptation of the Israelites. That temptation caused the

Israelites

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
to

Post by Jack G
trespass against their god (the god of the bible). Maybe the story

was

Post by Jack G
meant as a message to the Israelites--'worship the right god or else,

look

Post by Jack G
what happened to the Midianites'.

IOW, the "one true God" was one hell of a *jealous* bastard.

IOW, the "writer of the story" wanted somebody to think so maybe.

So you agree Christians who hold to it are idiots, then. Glad we agree.

[Jack G]

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

On 20 Jan 2005 07:10:48 -0800, "Rump Ranger"

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and

morality

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
being

Post by Rump Ranger
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to

the

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
Bible

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
he

Post by Rump Ranger
instigated so many atrocities?

Simple answer - he didn't. You atheists just don't

understand.

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
So tell me what the *real meaning* about the book of Numbers

Chapter 31

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
is about. Don't get all cryptic on me. I want in *plain

English*

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
an

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
explanation of why God told the Israelites to massacre all but

32000

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
Midianite women (including children, beasts, and women), have

all

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
the

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
women's vaginas checked to see if they had hymens (against

their

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
will

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
while they grieved the loss of their families), and then sold

them

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
into

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
sex slavery for life. How can this not be considered an

atrocity?

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G
Maybe it wasn't considered an atrocity to the person/persons who

wrote that

Post by Jack G
part of the bible. Or maybe it was considered an atrocity but the

story of

Post by Jack G
it had a purpose. The people of Midian worshipped Baal and the

Israelites

Post by Jack G
were tempted by Baal (or the baal worshipping Midianites). It

was a

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
divine

Post by Jack G
reprisal ordered by Moses against the people of Midian for their

previous

Post by Jack G
temptation of the Israelites. That temptation caused the

Israelites

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
to

Post by Jack G
trespass against their god (the god of the bible). Maybe the

story

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
was

Post by Jack G
meant as a message to the Israelites--'worship the right god or

else,

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
look

Post by Jack G
what happened to the Midianites'.

IOW, the "one true God" was one hell of a *jealous* bastard.

IOW, the "writer of the story" wanted somebody to think so maybe.

So you agree Christians who hold to it are idiots, then. Glad we agree.

No, I don't make that characterization of Christians who take the bible as
the literal word of god.

I just don't take the bible as the literal word of god or the stories as the
true narrative of gods actions on earth. The bible is full of stories,
written by men. Maybe there is some divine revelation and truth reflected
in some of the stories, maybe not.

[Rump Ranger]

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

On 20 Jan 2005 07:10:48 -0800, "Rump Ranger"

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and

morality

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
being

Post by Rump Ranger
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to

the

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
Bible

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
he

Post by Rump Ranger
instigated so many atrocities?

Simple answer - he didn't. You atheists just don't

understand.

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
So tell me what the *real meaning* about the book of

Numbers

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
Chapter 31

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
is about. Don't get all cryptic on me. I want in *plain

English*

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
an

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
explanation of why God told the Israelites to massacre all but

32000

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
Midianite women (including children, beasts, and women), have

all

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
the

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
women's vaginas checked to see if they had hymens (against

their

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
will

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
while they grieved the loss of their families), and then sold

them

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
into

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
sex slavery for life. How can this not be considered an

atrocity?

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger

Post by Jack G
Maybe it wasn't considered an atrocity to the person/persons who

wrote that

Post by Jack G
part of the bible. Or maybe it was considered an atrocity but the

story of

Post by Jack G
it had a purpose. The people of Midian worshipped Baal and the

Israelites

Post by Jack G
were tempted by Baal (or the baal worshipping Midianites).

It

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
was a

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
divine

Post by Jack G
reprisal ordered by Moses against the people of Midian for their

previous

Post by Jack G
temptation of the Israelites. That temptation caused the

Israelites

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
to

Post by Jack G
trespass against their god (the god of the bible). Maybe the

story

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
was

Post by Jack G
meant as a message to the Israelites--'worship the right god or

else,

Post by Jack G

Post by Rump Ranger
look

Post by Jack G
what happened to the Midianites'.

IOW, the "one true God" was one hell of a *jealous* bastard.

IOW, the "writer of the story" wanted somebody to think so maybe.

So you agree Christians who hold to it are idiots, then. Glad we agree.

No, I don't make that characterization of Christians who take the bible as
the literal word of god.

Anyone who does so and believes God is "perfect love" incarnate *is* an
idiot.

[Horatio]

Rump Ranger wrote:
|| Jack G wrote:
||| "Rump Ranger" <***@fadmail.com> wrote in message
||| news:***@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
||||
|||| Jack G wrote:
||||| "Rump Ranger" <***@fadmail.com> wrote in message
||||| news:***@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
||||||
|||||| Jack G wrote:
||||||| "Rump Ranger" <***@fadmail.com> wrote in message
||||||| news:***@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
||||||||
|||||||| duke wrote:
||||||||| On 20 Jan 2005 07:10:48 -0800, "Rump Ranger"
||||||||| <***@fadmail.com> wrote:
|||||||||
|||||||||| Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and
|||||||||| morality being eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when
|||||||||| according
|| to
|||| the
|||||| Bible
|||||||| he
|||||||||| instigated so many atrocities?
|||||||||
||||||||| Simple answer - he didn't. You atheists just don't
||||||||| understand.
|||||||||
||||||||
|||||||| So tell me what the *real meaning* about the book of Numbers
|||||||| Chapter 31 is about. Don't get all cryptic on me. I want in
|||||||| *plain English* an explanation of why God told the Israelites
|||||||| to massacre all but 32000 Midianite women (including children,
|||||||| beasts, and women),
|| have
|||| all
|||||| the
|||||||| women's vaginas checked to see if they had hymens (against
|||||||| their will while they grieved the loss of their families), and
|||||||| then
|| sold
|||| them
|||||| into
|||||||| sex slavery for life. How can this not be considered an
|||||||| atrocity?
||||||||
||||||| Maybe it wasn't considered an atrocity to the person/persons
||||||| who wrote that part of the bible. Or maybe it was considered an
||||||| atrocity but the story of it had a purpose. The people of
||||||| Midian worshipped Baal and the Israelites were tempted by Baal
||||||| (or the baal worshipping Midianites).
|| It
|||| was a
|||||| divine
||||||| reprisal ordered by Moses against the people of Midian for
||||||| their previous temptation of the Israelites. That temptation
||||||| caused the Israelites to trespass against their god (the god of
||||||| the bible). Maybe
|| the
|||| story
|||||| was
||||||| meant as a message to the Israelites--'worship the right god
|| or
|||| else,
|||||| look
||||||| what happened to the Midianites'.
|||||| IOW, the "one true God" was one hell of a *jealous* bastard.
||||||
||||| IOW, the "writer of the story" wanted somebody to think so maybe.
||||
|||| So you agree Christians who hold to it are idiots, then. Glad we
|||| agree.
||||
||| No, I don't make that characterization of Christians who take the
||| bible as the literal word of god.
|||
||
|| Anyone who does so and believes God is "perfect love" incarnate *is*
|| an idiot.

Anyone who believes that YOU are a sentient being is even MORE an idiot.

[Rump Ranger]

Post by Horatio
||||
||||||
||||||||
||||||||| On 20 Jan 2005 07:10:48 -0800, "Rump Ranger"
|||||||||
|||||||||| Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and
|||||||||| morality being eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when
|||||||||| according
|| to
|||| the
|||||| Bible
|||||||| he
|||||||||| instigated so many atrocities?
|||||||||
||||||||| Simple answer - he didn't. You atheists just don't
||||||||| understand.
|||||||||
||||||||
|||||||| So tell me what the *real meaning* about the book of Numbers
|||||||| Chapter 31 is about. Don't get all cryptic on me. I want in
|||||||| *plain English* an explanation of why God told the

Israelites

Post by Horatio
|||||||| to massacre all but 32000 Midianite women (including

children,

Post by Horatio
|||||||| beasts, and women),
|| have
|||| all
|||||| the
|||||||| women's vaginas checked to see if they had hymens (against
|||||||| their will while they grieved the loss of their families), and
|||||||| then
|| sold
|||| them
|||||| into
|||||||| sex slavery for life. How can this not be considered an
|||||||| atrocity?
||||||||
||||||| Maybe it wasn't considered an atrocity to the person/persons
||||||| who wrote that part of the bible. Or maybe it was considered an
||||||| atrocity but the story of it had a purpose. The people of
||||||| Midian worshipped Baal and the Israelites were tempted by Baal
||||||| (or the baal worshipping Midianites).
|| It
|||| was a
|||||| divine
||||||| reprisal ordered by Moses against the people of Midian for
||||||| their previous temptation of the Israelites. That temptation
||||||| caused the Israelites to trespass against their god (the god of
||||||| the bible). Maybe
|| the
|||| story
|||||| was
||||||| meant as a message to the Israelites--'worship the right god
|| or
|||| else,
|||||| look
||||||| what happened to the Midianites'.
|||||| IOW, the "one true God" was one hell of a *jealous* bastard.
||||||
||||| IOW, the "writer of the story" wanted somebody to think so maybe.
||||
|||| So you agree Christians who hold to it are idiots, then. Glad we
|||| agree.
||||
||| No, I don't make that characterization of Christians who take the
||| bible as the literal word of god.
|||
||
|| Anyone who does so and believes God is "perfect love" incarnate *is*
|| an idiot.
Anyone who believes that YOU are a sentient being is even MORE an idiot.

I know you are, but what am I? Got anything *intelligent* to say on
this subject?

["X-file" <[e-mail]>]

Are you trying to retrofit societry with you modernistic political
correctness arguement?
What is your current position on things?

Post by Rump Ranger
Why do you Christians keep talking about God's word and morality being
eternal and the pinnacle of rightousness when according to the Bible he
instigated so many atrocities?

YOU SAY IN CONJECTURE! THE OPINION EVERYTHING IS AN OPINION IS AN OPINION!

~A~
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